Builder question: Filling in holes

[lossforgain]

I'm new to the world of hand built guitars, and curious how you builders feel about back/side sets that have imperfections in them. Perhaps there is a small hole in the back or side when you order the wood and you know it's there. How often do you use sets like this? How do you feel about filling the hole and using the set - is it less stable or resonant in any way? If you do use wood like this, how do you make the repair less noticeable on the finished guitar?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[SteveS]

If we only used perfect wood, we'd never complete a guitar. If natural, holes are part of the character and beauty of the wood. If man made, that's a different story.

[Steve Kinnaird]

You can either hide them, or capitalize on them.
If they are quite small, a simple fill is nearly invisible, and I can't see it having any effect on sound.
Or if they are large, like the picture gleaned from Jarvis' post, then they can become part of the composition. These holes were made by the Ambrosia beetle, and I felt were part of the story. I filled them with a black matrix, which advertised them pointedly. On the back side (inside guitar) there are tiny cleats made from matching wood covering each hole as reinforcement.





Steve

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by lossforgain

I'm new to the world of hand built guitars, and curious how you builders feel about back/side sets that have imperfections in them. Perhaps there is a small hole in the back or side when you order the wood and you know it's there. How often do you use sets like this? How do you feel about filling the hole and using the set - is it less stable or resonant in any way? If you do use wood like this, how do you make the repair less noticeable on the finished guitar?

Thanks for your thoughts.

reply edited...

[lossforgain]

Originally Posted by Tim McKnight

reply edited...

Tim, I don't see the reply you mention?

[Tim McKnight]

Originally Posted by lossforgain

Tim, I don't see the reply you mention?

I had brain gas, you know, the stinky kind... I was rambling on and on and then lost it with some stupid fat fingered key board stroke. Then I tried to recall what I typed and I was blank. Weird stuff happens as we age...

[theEdwinson]

If the wood is stable, and not structurally compromised, it's often possible, even desirable, to use these "imperfections" to your artistic advantage. Nature makes order out of chaos, and I think that should be celebrated.

Remember those Taylor Forklift guitars? Made out of scrap wooden pallets and hemlock(?) two-by-fours? I remember seeing an article in Acoustic Guitar magazine about them. The back & sides were riddled with nail holes. Bob Taylor, in a stroke of audacity, filled those nail holes with silver! How cool is that?

Bob Bennedetto once made a splendid archtop out of construction grade pine and Maple, full of knots and pitch pockets. Word was, it played and sounded just as well as his top of the line, $30,000 Cremona. What Bob was trying to point out was, it's most important how you interpret and use the materials you have available. -edwinson

[cadam5150]

Holes are as natural as wood itself. How much will these holes affect resonance of guitars is probably not worth quantifying because other than the imperfection of holes in wood, there is also the imperfection in building guitars. E.g. uneven amount of glue, fittings of the joints, spraying of lacquer, neck angle, depth of nut slots, compensated curve of the saddle, etc. I think list goes on.

But strangely when you put all these imperfection together, you have an amazing guitar. The key goes back to the passion, craftsmanship, attention to details in the guitar builder when he or she builds one.

The pursue for perfection might after all may be trying to reach a mirage.

While are still new to guitar building, use this curiosity to its max, try all kinds of custom built guitars if you have the chance. Over time, you should be able to appreciate some of the insightful responses by those AGF members.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Before you use any material be sure that the flaws are non-structural or they may come back to bite you.

Larger flaws should be addressed through joinery; actually fitting new pieces of wood as accurately as any other part of the structure.

Small inclusions or worm holes are easily addressed with low viscosity CyanoAcrilate and the dust of the wood itself, particularly in darker woods. The resulting fill will be darker than the wood itself and tend to not draw the eye.

Really small flaws can be filled with the porefilller, if you use it.

The more of this work you do the more you will realise the value of a higher grade of materials.

[lossforgain]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'm not building anything myself, I'm looking at back sets for a build. Thanks!

[Cornerstone Guitars]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

...

The more of this work you do the more you will realise the value of a higher grade of materials.

I'm with you there 100%. Unless it's some real rare hard to get piece.