The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-17-2018, 05:27 AM
Monsum Monsum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 473
Default Tonedexter vs Behringer ADI21

Hi everyone,

Another comparison from me in a never-ending quest for a better live sound.
In this test I asked myself a question, what the benefits are of using the Tonedexter in comparison to something as simple (and unbelievably cheap) as Behringer ADI21 (but any other preamp with some EQ would do).
I was interested in a real-life performance of these two units rather than a studio, straight to an audio interface recording.

So here is what I've done: My Gibson Hummingbird K&K pure mini equipped guitar was plugged into one of the preamps (Tonedexter or Behringer), then into a 10inch active speaker and this sound was recorded through a microphone. To make sure that the acoustic sound of the guitar doesn't bleed into the recording I played the guitar in a different room from where all the equipment was set up. There is no chance you can hear the acoustic sound in the audio clip, just what went through the speaker.

The settings of the preamps: on the Tonedexter I selected my best sounding wavemap with character set at 0 and used Bass control to roll off some low frequencies. On the Behringer ADI21 I tweaked the EQ to get the best sound.
There is no other processing other than some reverb (the same for both preamps) as this would be realistic in a live scenario.

Firstly, can you tell which soundclip is the Tonedexter which one is the ADI21?
Which sound do you like better? Which one do you think would work better at a gig?

The second preamp starts at 1:15


UPDATE:
In my post #32 of this thread there is a better (and fairer) audio clip of those two preamps.

Last edited by Monsum; 08-19-2018 at 06:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-17-2018, 06:29 AM
Woodstock School Of Music Woodstock School Of Music is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Woodstock Illinois
Posts: 1,229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsum View Post
Hi everyone,

Another comparison from me in a never-ending quest for a better live sound.
In this test I asked myself a question, what the benefits are of using the Tonedexter in comparison to something as simple (and unbelievably cheap) as Behringer ADI21 (but any other preamp with some EQ would do).
I was interested in a real-life performance of these two units rather than a studio, straight to an audio interface recording.

So here is what I've done: My Gibson Hummingbird K&K pure mini equipped guitar was plugged into one of the preamps (Tonedexter or Behringer), then into a 10inch active speaker and this sound was recorded through a microphone. To make sure that the acoustic sound of the guitar doesn't bleed into the recording I played the guitar in a different room from where all the equipment was set up. There is no chance you can hear the acoustic sound in the audio clip, just what went through the speaker.

The settings of the preamps: on the Tonedexter I selected my best sounding wavemap with character set at 0 and used Bass control to roll off some low frequencies. On the Behringer ADI21 I tweaked the EQ to get the best sound.
There is no other processing other than some reverb (the same for both preamps) as this would be realistic in a live scenario.

Firstly, can you tell which soundclip is the Tonedexter which one is the ADI21?
Which sound do you like better? Which one do you think would work better at a gig?

The second preamp starts at 1:15
The second set of samples is the Tonedexter. Although the second set sounds more acoustic my hunch is that the K&K will cut through more in a live performance unless you're playing a quiet gig in a small room.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-17-2018, 07:19 AM
RedJoker RedJoker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,013
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The dman View Post
The second set of samples is the Tonedexter. Although the second set sounds more acoustic my hunch is that the K&K will cut through more in a live performance unless you're playing a quiet gig in a small room.
I'm going to guess the opposite BUT I really hope you are correct because I liked the first set better and I already have an ADI21.
__________________
Original music here: Spotify Artist Page
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-17-2018, 09:36 AM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Allentown, PA
Posts: 4,598
Default

To my ear both sound really good and not very different. Maybe I should only be allowed to play plywood guitars...
__________________
jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator
.wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below
I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs
IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE
My duo's website and my email... [email protected]

Jon Fields
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-17-2018, 10:18 AM
BT55 BT55 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 1,525
Default Tonedexter vs Behringer ADI21

I think the bigger question is how close to your guitars acoustic sound does your amplified sound need to be? Will the audience hear the difference or even care? IMO the audience wants to hear music, they don’t care if you’re playing a Taylor, Martin or Emerald.
__________________
Taylor V-Class 814ce, 717e BE WHB, 520ce, 454ce, 420 Cedar\Maple, T5z Classic
Martin D18E Retro
Cordoba C10 Crossover
Emerald X20
Rainsong H-OM1000N2
Voyage-Air VAD-04
Custom Les Paul
Hot Rod Deville 410, Fishman Loudbox Performer
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-17-2018, 11:40 AM
dcopper dcopper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 1,683
Default

I liked the first set far better. My hope after all the hype of the ToneDexter is that is the first set. Anyway, sounded better to me.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-17-2018, 11:52 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: McLeansville, NC
Posts: 7,449
Default

The first set sounded far better to me. Not sure which is which, but I lean towards the first set being the Behringer. That's my go-to preamp and I have been happy with it.
__________________
Roy


Ibanez, Recording King, Gretsch, Martin
G&L, Squier, Orange (x 2),
Bugera, JBL, Soundcraft

Our duo website - UPDATED 7/26/19
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-17-2018, 11:56 AM
Hummingman Hummingman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Northwest Alabama
Posts: 3
Default Humble opinion

The first set sounded clearer and more live than the second.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-17-2018, 12:11 PM
Peter Z Peter Z is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,423
Default

While I also like the first set better in this special case I want to say I had an ADI21 and gave it away for free. I have the ToneDexter and think it is a much much better piece of gear. It may not work with every guitar/pickup combination thou. Also sometimes it is easy to make a good wavemap and sometimes it is hard work.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-17-2018, 01:27 PM
Monsum Monsum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonfields45 View Post
To my ear both sound really good and not very different. Maybe I should only be allowed to play plywood guitars...
Lucky you, I wish I wasn't so critical about the sound.

I agree with you that both sound pretty good but I expected the Tonedexter with its cutting-edge technology to be much better.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-17-2018, 01:34 PM
Monsum Monsum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 473
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BT55 View Post
I think the bigger question is how close to your guitars acoustic sound does your amplified sound need to be? Will the audience hear the difference or even care? IMO the audience wants to hear music, they don’t care if you’re playing a Taylor, Martin or Emerald.
I think it was discussed here on AGF not so long ago and most people said (and that's my position as well) that even if the audience can't tell the difference between pickups, preamps and guitars, the sound matters to the performer.
An uninspiring sound through an amp or PA doesn't help me to enjoy the playing.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-17-2018, 01:41 PM
Monsum Monsum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 473
Default

To reveal the order of preamps in the audioclip for those interested: the first one is Behringer ADI21 and the second one Tondexter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Z View Post
While I also like the first set better in this special case I want to say I had an ADI21 and gave it away for free. I have the ToneDexter and think it is a much much better piece of gear. It may not work with every guitar/pickup combination thou. Also sometimes it is easy to make a good wavemap and sometimes it is hard work.
The thing is, I spent hours and days making wavemaps using 4 different microphones (3 of them condensers), 3 different guitars and pickups and all possible mic positions and distances.
And that wavemap recorded above is one of the best.
I don't know what else I can try.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-17-2018, 03:26 PM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: McLeansville, NC
Posts: 7,449
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsum View Post
To reveal the order of preamps in the audioclip for those interested: the first one is Behringer ADI21 and the second one Tondexter.



The thing is, I spent hours and days making wavemaps using 4 different microphones (3 of them condensers), 3 different guitars and pickups and all possible mic positions and distances.
And that wavemap recorded above is one of the best.
I don't know what else I can try.
The Behringer sounds the best to most of us, as I suspect it does to you.
I do not care for the tone generated by the Tonedexter at all.

Why not just use the Behringer and sell the Tonedexter?

Honestly, I'm shocked at the stark difference in tone quality (IMHO).
__________________
Roy


Ibanez, Recording King, Gretsch, Martin
G&L, Squier, Orange (x 2),
Bugera, JBL, Soundcraft

Our duo website - UPDATED 7/26/19
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-17-2018, 03:48 PM
BT55 BT55 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 1,525
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsum View Post
I think it was discussed here on AGF not so long ago and most people said (and that's my position as well) that even if the audience can't tell the difference between pickups, preamps and guitars, the sound matters to the performer.

An uninspiring sound through an amp or PA doesn't help me to enjoy the playing.

I respect your point but your job is to put on a performance for the audience and that is where your focus should be. Forget about yourself, get lost in the music and give a great performance!
In a perfect world you would perform with your best equipment in an acoustically tuned environment. But that world doesn’t exist for 99.999% of gigs.
Many moons ago I was on vacation with friends at a bar and the folk act didn’t show. Long story short my guitar “miraculously appeared” and my friends drank for free as long as I played. Crappy guitar, lousy amplification but very one had a good time including me.
__________________
Taylor V-Class 814ce, 717e BE WHB, 520ce, 454ce, 420 Cedar\Maple, T5z Classic
Martin D18E Retro
Cordoba C10 Crossover
Emerald X20
Rainsong H-OM1000N2
Voyage-Air VAD-04
Custom Les Paul
Hot Rod Deville 410, Fishman Loudbox Performer
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-17-2018, 04:10 PM
RedJoker RedJoker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,013
Default

Quick question, what speaker did you use here? I see it's a 10" active but it sounds good.
__________________
Original music here: Spotify Artist Page
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=