Record slow for accuracy, speed up in post processing? Ethical?

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

A far as I know it's like Doug said. Speed it up and the pitch goes up. Raising the speed without changing the pitch creates an artifact laden unpleasant sound (at least with software I am aware of). If you need to play it slower than the tempo in mind then take advantage of the extra space a slower tempo gives you to emote more. Down the line over time you probably will be able to play it at a faster tempo anyway.

Yea, there’s a Mark Hanson song Flier that I am in the polishing stage of learning that I am currently employing two creative pauses to allow a tiny bit more time to switch chord grips. The need will probably go away. On the other song, I’ll take the advice to just see if I can transition in and out of a slower tempo in the difficult section in an artistic manner.

Thanks for all the great feedback!

[Monsum]

I haven't done the slowing down/speeding up trick but comping from, say 20 takes to create one - a perfect solo.
I still feel like it's a bit of cheating because it proves that I can't learn some more challenging (for me) solos without making many mistakes. So now I prefer to simplify a part but at least I would be able to reproduce it live.
I don't think it's an ethical issue, it has more to do with being true to myself and accepting my limitations. At the end of the day, music is not about speed but feel.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Bob, are you saying he progressively sped up just Duane, or the whole track? I've never been able to stand listening to that section, because Duane is so out of tune with the rest of the band - it's like nails on a blackboard.

He sped up the whole mix.


Bob

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Bob, are you saying he progressively sped up just Duane, or the whole track? I've never been able to stand listening to that section, because Duane is so out of tune with the rest of the band - it's like nails on a blackboard.

The end section was sped up (where the piano comes in on that big C major). It really brings out the "fuzziness" of Duane's intonation as it gets faster though right? You can actually hear the pitch changing on that section.

Another classic rock example is the Allman Brother's Blue Sky. They played it in E, but go ahead a try to play along in E...you'll find they're just hovering right above E. They sped it up to make it "groove". Say what you want about it though, When Berry Oakley jams along on bass under the guitar solos I just smile all day long.

To the OP: almost no one plays what they're playing on their recordings these days...everything is fair game.

Though as others have pointed out, you may end up with some pretty noticeable artifacts. It might be easier to just record each section and edit it all together.

[midwinter]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

There were lots of cases where the record companies not only cut down hit songs to make their radio versions but sped them up to hit on or near that golden 3:05 target.

It's not acoustic music by any stretch of the imagination, but Sylvan Esso's "Radio" is an indictment of this. Apparently, for them the sweet spot is 3:30.

FYI: there's some cussin'.

[gwlee7]

I have been writing some country tunes with a good friend who live down in Austin. We are trying hard to keep them coming in at 3:00. I come from playing in a long line of blues, southern, country rock, and jam bands. I keep thinking that 3:00 is just about where the first solo ends. 😀

[Bob Womack]

The 3:05 was considered perfect back in the '70s. It has lengthened since then.


Bob

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

The 3:05 was considered perfect back in the '70s. It has lengthened since then.

While attention spans get shorter. Makes no sense.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Was wondering about this after reading about advice to record composite tracks to put together a recording. Say you are working on a pretty difficult instrumental fingerstyle song that you have to play & record slower than you would like to get through a couple of challenging sections. You do a good recording but in post processing in your DAW, in addition to possibly tweaking with compression and reverb, you speed it up 10-15 percent for the final recording you want to present to your audience.

It seems like "cheating" to me but I wonder in the professional world if it's done at times. As long as your listening audience is happy, who really cares is one viewpoint. It can't be any worse than lip syncing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEr8AY7nA44

It's not ready to be recorded yet if that's the case. Stuff I record is far from perfect, believe me, but when it comes to something like that I think you are better off just practicing it more until you're as proficient in that one section as the rest of the song.

I spend hours and hours working on just "parts." That whole process is a big part of the enjoyment of learning and playing for me. I just recently started telling myself that I don't get any bonus points by hurrying to put something in "Show and Tell."

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by TBman

It's not ready to be recorded yet if that's the case. Stuff I record is far from perfect, believe me, but when it comes to something like that I think you are better off just practicing it more until you're as proficient in that one section as the rest of the song.

I spend hours and hours working on just "parts." That whole process is a big part of the enjoyment of learning and playing for me. I just recently started telling myself that I don't get any bonus points by hurrying to put something in "Show and Tell."

Barry,

Go to Daria’s YT video of Shooting Star, 2:28-2:30 is my stumble point and the inspiration for my question.

Cheers,

Bob

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

The 3:05 was considered perfect back in the '70s. It has lengthened since then.

By the late '80s is was 3:30. I don't know if that still holds true...though I just mixed a Dance/EDM track for an artist that clocked in at 3:47, so maybe it's still in that neighborhood.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Barry,

Go to Daria’s YT video of Shooting Star, 2:28-2:30 is my stumble point and the inspiration for my question.

Cheers,

Bob

The fastest part is the slide up. Don't match the arpeggio after that to the slide speed, its a little slower. You don't have to play that part exactly at her tempo either, its ok to drag that part a bit, it'll still sound good. I didn't get that far in my cover as I can only fit so many pages on my desk, lol. (I'm getting a bigger desk in the fall, , no excuses then.)

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Barry,

Go to Daria’s YT video of Shooting Star, 2:28-2:30 is my stumble point and the inspiration for my question.

Cheers,

Bob

Did not retune my guitar for this, therefore just an example follows.

To learn a particular passage you can divide and conquer. Create anchor (or division points). For example say:

standard tuning

10--8--7-------------
-------------10--7----
----------------------9
---------------------------
-----------------------------
----------------------------

and say 4/4 time and above notes are timed as eighth note triplets (as in the video I believe). First three notes are one group, last three notes are a second group with a beat accent on the beginning of each triplet.

When practicing focus your attention where your fretting finger needs to be at the beginning of each group.


You can apply that mindset of dividing up much longer passages to more manageable portions. Helps to memorize things and helps to accent notes correctly.

[MikeBmusic]

If you are planning on playing this song live at any future point, you should consider changing the difficult part to allow you to do it live the same as recorded. I have a number of songs that I cannot sing and play at the same time, the way they sound on my recordings. I don't do those songs live!

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by TBman

The fastest part is the slide up. Don't match the arpeggio after that to the slide speed, its a little slower. You don't have to play that part exactly at her tempo either, its ok to drag that part a bit, it'll still sound good. I didn't get that far in my cover as I can only fit so many pages on my desk, lol. (I'm getting a bigger desk in the fall, , no excuses then.)

I’m close to smoothing that part out. I can play the song pretty cleanly now at about 85% of Daria’s performance tempo and it sounds pretty nice.

I am 80% into Rainy Window with Daria’s recorded performance again as my inspiration. I’m playing what I have memorized pretty slow at this point and I’m hoping to get the last page of the arrangement into my head over the next week and then polishing the performance from there.

I really enjoy listening to and learning some of the arrangements from the Japanese fingerstyle guitarists like Masaaki Kishibe and most recently Takeshi Sakasegawa that Daria performs. They are very melodic and don’t tend to sound like New Age elevator music.