Help with this long (for me) chord transition

[VJP5]

Jim Croce has always been one of my favorite artists, and sadly he puts my intermediate skills to the test. I am working on "I Have to Say I Love You" and there is one transition that I absolutely cannot make and keep in time. Of course it's the very first 2 chords, too. Nothing like starting off behind on the beat This is the transition:

Amaj7 to C#m

If I strum the song (as is the case with most strumming), if you're not quite there it gets easily lost in the sustain. However, there is no hiding being late when you play this fingerstyle.

I've practiced with a metronome going super slow, to slow, to moderate, but that's as far as I can get. I am still almost a full beat behind at speed. I do not play professionally, so it's not like I am losing money being off on this. However, I would like to continue to improve, albeit for myself and my fan club (also known as my family). Maybe I'll never get there, but I have to keep trying. It would be nice to play this as Jim intended.

Any ideas on how/what I can practice to "get there"?

Thanks,
Vince

[Gitfiddlemann]

I take it it's the transition to the barre at the 4th fret that's tripping you up.
Other than that I don't really see anything. Looks like the song goes to C#m, then to Bm, followed by Dm.
These are all barre chords with an Am shape. Getting comfortable with that shape and those shifts will be key for you, and what you need to work on.
It's not difficult. But it does take practice if you're new at it.
It takes time. Don't rush it. You might not be yet ready for the fingerstyle arrangement if you are having trouble with that shift.
I would practice slow strumming or block chords at first, in time. Get comfortable with moving that shape around.
As far as the opening transition from Amaj7 to C#m goes:
Use your middle finger as a guide finger, i.e.: use it to fret the C# in the Amaj7 chord, (with the index finger on the G#) and keep it down when you shift up to the 5th fret E note in C#m chord. You'll see what I mean. The guide finger will make it easier to go from one chord shape to the other.
Then practice these shifts:
Amaj7, C#m, Bm, Dm.
That's a lot of the song right there.
Once these shifts become smooth for you, and they will in time, then going to the fingerstyle arrangement will be just as easy.
Good luck, and let me know if you are having trouble understanding what I mean. I'll try to show you with some visuals. But I have a feeling you'll get it.
Have fun with it.

[stanron]

Try

x 0 7 6 5 4

as the Amaj7

Then your first and second fingers are in the right place for C#m. OK your first finger has to change to a barre but your second finger can stay down as a pivot point.

If you are finger picking, rather than strumming, you could leave out the 7th fret on the fourth string and the shape is even easier.

[VJP5]

Originally Posted by AndreF

I take it it's the transition to the barre at the 4th fret that's tripping you up.

That's it!

Originally Posted by AndreF

As far as the opening transition from Amaj7 to C#m goes:
Use your middle finger as a guide finger, i.e.: use it to fret the C# in the Amaj7 chord, (with the index finger on the G#) and keep it down when you shift up to the 5th fret E note in C#m chord. You'll see what I mean. The guide finger will make it easier to go from one chord shape to the other.

I will definitely try this tonight when I get home. I think I understand what you're saying.


The rest of the chord transitions are much easier. I can strum the entire song and it sounds nice. But I really want to get this song down finger style. Who knows....this could be a goal out of my reach (no pun intended ) But I have a lot of try left in me.

Thanks for the advice. It is very much appreciated.

[VJP5]

Originally Posted by stanron

Try

x 0 7 6 5 4

as the Amaj7

Then your first and second fingers are in the right place for C#m. OK your first finger has to change to a barre but your second finger can stay down as a pivot point.

If you are finger picking, rather than strumming, you could leave out the 7th fret on the fourth string and the shape is even easier.

I will try this, as well. I really like the sound of the first position Amj7. But if I can't nail it, and this sounds good, I will give it a go.

Thanks!

[BFD]

Actually, what I think is easier, will give you the 1st position sound and probably what Jim did is->

Amaj7 - 5 x 6 6 5 0
Cm - x 4 6 6 5 4

That way the transition is a very minor index finger move.

[rick-slo]

For more time between chord changes try the following strum pattern count 1-2-3-4(5)-6-7(8) i.e. no strums on 5 and 8

Could be all strums or on 1 you could pick 5th string note with thumb.

FWIW most people fingerpick this song.

[VJP5]

Originally Posted by AndreF

As far as the opening transition from Amaj7 to C#m goes:
Use your middle finger as a guide finger, i.e.: use it to fret the C# in the Amaj7 chord, (with the index finger on the G#) and keep it down when you shift up to the 5th fret E note in C#m chord. You'll see what I mean. The guide finger will make it easier to go from one chord shape to the other.

This worked! It's a little awkward at first. But after a few tries, I can already tell I'm getting there faster. Excellent suggestion.

Originally Posted by stanron

Try

x 0 7 6 5 4

as the Amaj7

This worked, as well. I prefer the 1st position, but may alternate with this one on the second verse, just for variety.

Originally Posted by BFD

Actually, what I think is easier, will give you the 1st position sound and probably what Jim did is->

Amaj7 - 5 x 6 6 5 0
Cm - x 4 6 6 5 4

That way the transition is a very minor index finger move.

I will try this today. Thanks for another great suggestion.

Originally Posted by rick-slo

FWIW most people fingerpick this song.

That's what I'm trying. I just needed help on the first chord transition while keeping in tempo.

[SunnyDee]

Originally Posted by BFD

Actually, what I think is easier, will give you the 1st position sound and probably what Jim did is->

Amaj7 - 5 x 6 6 5 0
Cm - x 4 6 6 5 4

That way the transition is a very minor index finger move.

Yes, what I was going to say. This makes sense to me, too. Let us know what you go with.

[stanron]

BDF suggested

5 x 6 6 5 0

You get the same notes if you do

x 0 6 6 5 0

For the three fingered strings use the fingers you would use for C#m. Then just add the first finger barre for the change.

There is a technique which, for the sake of a better name, could be called a 'part lifted barre'. Imagine holding down a full barre. Keeping your first finger the first string, angle it up so it no longer touches the other strings.

Using that play

x 0 6 6 5 4

for the Amaj7, and then drop the barre full down for the C#m.

Also you can use the open E as an alternating bass note in the A maj7 and repeat that picking pattern on the C#m and the Bm.

[rick-slo]

I tabbed out the first two measures.

Play it like below. The open string quarter note gives you plenty of time to change up
to the C#m chord. You can aim your eyes where index finger is to land if helpful.

On some other chord changes in the tune the way it works out (more or less) is that
the quarter note is held for an eighth note time value and the other eighth note time
value is used for the chord change move.

[VJP5]

First and foremost, THANK YOU to all that responded. I love this forum!!

Originally Posted by BFD

Actually, what I think is easier, will give you the 1st position sound and probably what Jim did is->

Amaj7 - 5 x 6 6 5 0
Cm - x 4 6 6 5 4

That way the transition is a very minor index finger move.

Originally Posted by SunnyDee

Yes, what I was going to say. .

Originally Posted by stanron

BDF suggested

5 x 6 6 5 0

You get the same notes if you do

x 0 6 6 5 0

For the three fingered strings use the fingers you would use for C#m. Then just add the first finger barre for the change.

There is a technique which, for the sake of a better name, could be called a 'part lifted barre'. Imagine holding down a full barre. Keeping your first finger the first string, angle it up so it no longer touches the other strings.

Using that play

x 0 6 6 5 4

for the Amaj7, and then drop the barre full down for the C#m.

This is the one!!

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I tabbed out the first two measures.

On some other chord changes in the tune the way it works out (more or less) is that
the quarter note is held for an eighth note time value and the other eighth note time
value is used for the chord change move.

Thank you for taking the time to tab this out. I do like this way, also, As you said, the open note gives me the time to move to the C#m. I may alternate this in from time to time (or verse to verse). Seeing the standard notation, though, really helped. It reinforces the time for each note.