Grace Felix V Headway EDB-2/ Headway EDM-1 V ?

[Hamptonguitar]

How much better as a stage tool is the Felix than the Headway? What can it do that the Headway can’t? What can it do that the Headway can do but do better? Is there anything the Headway can do that the Felix can’t?

As a belt wearable preamp of small size and weight, is there anything that rivals the EDM-1 in quality?

Thankyou.

[Cuki79]

I had the EDB-1 and it was a noisy unit using TL062 op amp if I remember well. The unit EDB-2 is less noisy with probably TL072 but you can see there is a strategy to avoid the "noise" (search noise in the manual: it is frightening)

The specs talk (the EDB-1 did not have noise specs)

EDB2
Master at 2 O'clock
CH1 20dB gain, noise: -90 dB
CH2 30dB gain, noise: -84dB
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.05%

Grace Felix has better specs by 1 or 2 orders of magnitude...
60 dB gain, noise <-128dB
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.0045% at 10 dB gain
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.005% at 20 dB gain
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.01% at 60 dB gain

My EDB-1 had noise features comparable to my old 4-track Tascam portastudio with K7.

I'd say EDB-2 has to be seen as a portable device made to work on batteries... Its performance can't be compared even with a Yamaha MG mixer (check the numbers).

At the end of the day, it does the same job... just differently.

[Andy Howell]

I have the EDB2. It is a fine sounding preamp which can run on mains as well as battery power.

Headway understands how to amplify acoustic sound and many superb musicians in the U.K. use them. It won’t compete against the Felix though as that is studio quality.

But in the real gigging world the EDB2 is pretty decent.

This unit is designed to blend an outboard mic and pickup rather than blending on onboard mic.

I’ve never had problems with noise either the #1 or #2 either through a PA or a guitar amp - I’m gigging at least once a week.

It is a fine product if it serves your need. It’s not a Felix but then it is far more affordable!

[Andy Howell]

BTW I also have an EDM1 and am using that pretty regularly as well (as it is powered by phantom power). It is not quite as silky as it’s big brother but it is a very usable unit.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Andy Howell

I’ve never had problems with noise either the #1 or #2 either through a PA or a guitar amp - I’m gigging at least once a week.

I might have a bad unit.

The noise was ok with an already preamplified pickup... Which was useless for me.

There are many people on the AGF who were happy with those units. This is one of the reason I gave the EDB-1 a try.

It just did not work for me. Actually I remember clearly my bandmate getting a better tone out of his old Fishman EQ Pro II than from my EDB-1.

Again I can't say for the EDB-2.

Here is the 1st page of the EDB-2 user guide


It says clearly "Now offering reduced noise levels". If they changed their design to reduce the noise levels, I guess it means I was not the only one who had noise problems with the EDB-1.

I don't gig much either,
Cuki

See a link with a similar experience as mine with the EDB-1
http://www.paulwalster.com/index.php?page=2

[Andy Howell]

Fair enough but I’d rather trust my ears! The 2 has a better sound than the 1 but I never found the 1 any noisier than my previous Fishman units!

The EDM1 is also pretty good for its price.

Previously Headway produced a very decent acoustic amp. There is a new one on the way which they are very excited about.

I would never claim any piece of kit is the best but these do sound very good and the 5 band eq on the 2 is very effective - if you have the time to set up or have a well dialled in basic sound.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Hamptonguitar

What can it do that the Headway can’t? u.

Felix has a ton of features that I don't believe the EDB-2 has (at least last time I saw one). A big one is that the EDB-2 can only eq one channel or the other, or the overall mix. Felix supports full separate EQ of both channels. There are many more features, Felix is surprisingly complex and configurable. Manuals for both should be online (Felix is for sure), so you should be able to compare the 2 and decide if the difference in features matters for your application. I thought the headway was a nice-sounding preamp when I last tried it, but there were a number of quirks, especially the 1-channel eq that made it not ideal for my dual source setups.

[Andy Howell]

That is right / Headway really don’t think much about eq-img two separate signals. It’s not a problem when using external mics which can be positioned well.

As Doug says it is a nice sounding preamp but not in the same league as the Felix. In a different price category but for many of us it is fine!

[Hamptonguitar]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Felix has a ton of features that I don't believe the EDB-2 has (at least last time I saw one). A big one is that the EDB-2 can only eq one channel or the other, or the overall mix. Felix supports full separate EQ of both channels. There are many more features, Felix is surprisingly complex and configurable. Manuals for both should be online (Felix is for sure), so you should be able to compare the 2 and decide if the difference in features matters for your application. I thought the headway was a nice-sounding preamp when I last tried it, but there were a number of quirks, especially the 1-channel eq that made it not ideal for my dual source setups.

Thanks for this. Helpful. Felix is only mains not battery powered I think, so that’s a fair consideration for quick set ups. What’s your current “go to” preamp for blending your dual sources?

[Hamptonguitar]

Originally Posted by Andy Howell

That is right / Headway really don’t think much about eq-img two separate signals. It’s not a problem when using external mics which can be positioned well.

As Doug says it is a nice sounding preamp but not in the same league as the Felix. In a different price category but for many of us it is fine!

Thanks for this Andy. That’s helpful.

[Hamptonguitar]

Originally Posted by Andy Howell

I have the EDB2. It is a fine sounding preamp which can run on mains as well as battery power.

Headway understands how to amplify acoustic sound and many superb musicians in the U.K. use them. It won’t compete against the Felix though as that is studio quality.

But in the real gigging world the EDB2 is pretty decent.

This unit is designed to blend an outboard mic and pickup rather than blending on onboard mic.

I’ve never had problems with noise either the #1 or #2 either through a PA or a guitar amp - I’m gigging at least once a week.

It is a fine product if it serves your need. It’s not a Felix but then it is far more affordable!

It is easily and effectively useable as a dual source blender (internal mic and pickup) though. Is that right?

[Hamptonguitar]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I had the EDB-1 and it was a noisy unit using TL062 op amp if I remember well. The unit EDB-2 is less noisy with probably TL072 but you can see there is a strategy to avoid the "noise" (search noise in the manual: it is frightening)

The specs talk (the EDB-1 did not have noise specs)

EDB2
Master at 2 O'clock
CH1 20dB gain, noise: -90 dB
CH2 30dB gain, noise: -84dB
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.05%

Grace Felix has better specs by 1 or 2 orders of magnitude...
60 dB gain, noise <-128dB
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.0045% at 10 dB gain
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.005% at 20 dB gain
Total Harmonic Distortion <0.01% at 60 dB gain

My EDB-1 had noise features comparable to my old 4-track Tascam portastudio with K7.

I'd say EDB-2 has to be seen as a portable device made to work on batteries... Its performance can't be compared even with a Yamaha MG mixer (check the numbers).

At the end of the day, it does the same job... just differently.

Thanks for the specs. You explained that clearly. Cheers!

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Hamptonguitar

What’s your current “go to” preamp for blending your dual sources?

I use Grace Felix or a Red-Eye Twin (battery and phantom-powered).

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Hamptonguitar

It is easily and effectively useable as a dual source blender (internal mic and pickup) though. Is that right?

Yes, as long as you don't need to EQ both channels. Typically with a dual source, you end up wanting to EQ each source. For example, with an internal mic, you probably want to roll off the low end, so you'd have to dedicate the EQ to the mic channel, leaving you with none for the pickup itself. That may be fine - it's a DI, so presumably you go into a board, where you can use it's EQ on the overall signal. Depends on your needs.

I recall being somewhere between amused and annoyed that the EDB-2 manual devotes at least an entire page to preaching about the evils of internal microphones and how no one should ever use one (tell Tommy Emmanuel, Laurence Juber, Don Ross, on and on...). It kind of alerted me that, although the preamp would support what I needed, it most definitely was not designed for that application. I believe the power the headway provides, which will work with most electret mics, is actually meant to support a headway pickup system that needs power, so the fact that is supports a mic that needs power is kind of accidental.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I recall being somewhere between amused and annoyed that the EDB-2 manual devotes at least an entire page to preaching about the evils of internal microphones and how no one should ever use one (tell Tommy Emmanuel, Laurence Juber, Don Ross, on and on...). It kind of alerted me that, although the preamp would support what I needed, it most definitely was not designed for that application. I believe the power the headway provides, which will work with most electret mics, is actually meant to support a headway pickup system that needs power, so the fact that is supports a mic that needs power is kind of accidental.

Here is the quote from the EDB2 manual

Mic Use Notes: Headway Music Audio Ltd. do NOT recommend the use of internal Mics within instrument bodies for several reasons. Firstly, musical instruments are voiced to be heard from the outside whereas internal bodies usually have excessive mid and bass boom. Secondly, Mics are meant to be used in free air where sound waves travel mainly from front of diaphragm to rear whereas inside instruments sound reflections and partial cancellations from standing waves cause phase problems and prevent clarity. In addition, the sound quality and construction/reliability of Mics offered with pickup systems for internal use is often poor.

Finally, the placement of a Mic inside a resonant chamber producing uneven peaks and a preponderance of low frequencies makes it exceptionally prone to feedback.

Mic Use/Notes cont...
Musicians should bear in mind that they might judge the sound of an internal Mic at very low volumes but will normally find it completely unusable at typical live performance volumes, or in difficult acoustic conditions even at low volumes. If you try to blend in a little Mic you would probably have to turn down the Mic volume to such a low signal that it is effectively perceived as turned off. If you try to make the Mic sound a little less boomy and unnatural by pointing it out of the sound hole you will be making it even more likely
to pickup speaker cabinets and monitors which may make it even more likely to feedback.

If the internal Mic is on a flexible gooseneck you may lessen the problems by spending time finding the best sounding spot for placement but as soon as it inevitably moves or changes angle slightly, or you take it to a different acoustic environment the problems are likely to worsen again.

Anti-feedback devices can help but the harder they work the more holes or bigger holes in the sound they need to remove which defeats the aim of using a Mic. Instead, if you use Mics, we suggest you use them externally with Hyper Cardiod polar patterns such as the DPA 4099 with its soft external body clip option. Mic stands with full sized, quality condenser Mics or using Proel's Guitar body mounting bracket with Mic holder.

External Mics will still be very prone to feedback than most pickups but at least they should sound better than internal Mics. Headway's Co-axial Piezo Cable Under Saddle pickups offer a more natural sound than flat pickups since they sense around 360 degrees.

As an alternative to a Mic, if you wish to add the impression of air in the sound, try a quality digital reverb (e.g. Lexicon) with a slow natural decay and a room setting which is larger than the one you are performing in.

I like the end, one could read: "Don't buy our preamp use a reverb instead".
I would add "Why using a digital reverb when you can have Tonedexter!"

lol
Cuki