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#1
01-15-2019, 12:27 AM
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Hearing aids and Acoustic Guitar sound?
I'm going 65 this month and I thought what the hell I will try my old hearing aids that got 5 years ago, very basic aids which I never liked back then, particularly when playing guitar.
I wanted to try them again and see what happens when I play my Epiphone Model AJ-220SCS which is what I play most of the time. All I can say is wow, a lot of the issues about how my guitar sounds are not really an issue, the quiet muffled sound, ordinary treble tones, particularly on the high E and B strings is now very nice and much brighter! A better tone on the top three strings is my impression? I really love this guitar much more than before, but all this set me to thinking, why?, yes I have probably lost some of my ability to hear the higher frequencies?, I will know more after I have a test on my ears in a few weeks. But hearing aids are mini amplifiers, they use a mic and amplify the sound in very simple terms, that must be why I'm hearing the improvement which actually sounds like its plugged into my Fishman Mini amp in a fashion? I struggle to find a way to describe it? After I go for my hearing test and most likely a new hearing aid, I will need to go and listen to all those guitars in the stores again which I did recently, I am feeling much better about the reality of my hearing loss. I have read a lot of the older posts here from those that have experienced various outcomes with hearing aids, it's very interesting going into the search and reading those posts. But I would love to hear from anyone who has had an experience similar to mine and how you would describe the sound, for me it sounds like it does when it comes through my amp, but not as pronounced? It sounds good 
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Pete "Never take a fool with you when you go, because you can always pick one up when you get there"! Billy Connolly. 
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#2
01-15-2019, 04:05 AM
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Pete, I guess this is one of the threads you mention - https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...ht=hearing+aid
I remember that thread for the great review Stratcat gave for his aids. And it gave me the feeling that some aids are better than others when it comes to optimising the sound of the guitar. I do not have hearing aids yet but am expecting it soon enough (to help me with clarity, not volume). I’ll be interested to learn about how you go and whether you can discuss the ‘guitar-friendliness‘ of various models with your audiologist. Col
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#3
01-15-2019, 04:10 AM
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About three months ago, I was being checked out at the hospital as they do every two or three months as I was having dizzy spells.
The did a couple of tests on me involving me marching on the spot with my eyes closed then confirmed that my cancer treatment had damaged my middle ear. As a passing comment the consultant said - "and of course, some people lose their hearing". I am now having increasing issues with my hearing - no trebles and everything sounds as if I'm listening to a blown out speaker. Guard your hearing - amplified music had already taken a portion of my hearing, seems cancer treatment might be taking more.
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Silly Moustache, Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer. I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
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#4
01-15-2019, 05:41 AM
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I began wearing hearing aids about 10 years ago and they are among the best things for me. Today’s aids do a lot more than amplify. My loss is in the higher frequencies also. While good aids are not cheap, neither is a good acoustic amp. Yet both last a long time and make music— and many other things— much better. Go for it. You will be glad you did.
Richard
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#5
01-15-2019, 08:59 AM
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Finally, something I'm an expert of sort on
Unfortunately  I've wore hearing aids since I was 13. Known loss of hearing since I was 5. Coming up to my 64 birthday in four months. Yes, aids are just amplifiers and they have EQ control that varies a lot to tailor the frequency response, hopefully set for your specific loss. And having gone thru a bunch of hearing aids I've seen a repeat of a lot of issues. When you start wearing hearing aids the sound is going to seem artificial, mechanical, etc. at first. And there's going to be things like adjusting the volume (back in the day when all aids were behind the ear - BTE - and have tiny volume control dials), dealing with acoustical feedback, getting the thing in your ear and back out, all that intimidates first time users and scare them away. Stick with it, they do help, just as you've found with your guitar sound. The artificial nature of sound from hearing aids is something your brain needs to adjust to over time. Everything time I get a new aid it never sounds the same as the previous one. A week later I'm so used to the new sound, that if I switch back to the old ones, it sounds wrong. Give yourself time to adjust to what the hearing aids sound like. However, different aids will get you different results. This is me, now, your experiences will vary. I'm in the severe to profound hearing loss range. Hearing aids for me is all about raw power. My hearing aids can, and do, push sound pressure levels of up to 138 dB into my ears. Ordinary people would be screaming in pain if they wore my aids. The aids I had before the one I got now were good, but I grew to hate my guitar tones. I never could find the sound I was looking for. I'm currently using a brand called Oticon, model name Chili (they aren't in Oticon current model line up) that replaced those. This time, I let the audiologist know I wanted the best possible musical experience I could get. Still have to have "super power" for that 138 dB sound pressure. Lots of hearing aids are automatically rejected because they aren't going to get to that level. Within the Chili SP (SP for "super power") there were 3 versions, each more expensive, each able, on paper, to offer a little more sound experience. I went for the most expensive, hoping for some improvements in these years I have left before I lost all hearing. Fortunately, it delivered. After getting use to the new sound the first couple of weeks, I find I like my guitars again. Problem I have was the previous hearing aids were focus on the speech range at the expensive of other frequency and it was too limiting for music. Get away from the basic models and the aids will likely have ability to set up a multiple of EQ. Mine can do 5 different tailored programs. The audiologist set three EQ programs for me: a wide frequency range for music, a restrict range that is supposed to improve the ability to reject noise and focus on speech, and a "T-coil" for use with telephone. I find I never use anything other than the wide frequency range. And the limited frequency program for speech the audiologist expected would be the most useful I never use. It's sort like my previous aids sound that made me hate my guitars. So, work with your audiologist. Let them know you HAVE to hear music. Be warned that it will cost. At the same time, push for cost savings, discounts, whatever you can. There are huge markups in the hearing aid business. They do have to work with you to tailor the aids for your hearing, so some markup is justified. New users can be challenging for audiologist to get the hearing aids set for your best experience, and it could take several office visits experimenting with different EQ setting until they get it right. Me, I'm easier than most, because 50 years of wearing hearing aids seem to have me talking the audiologist's language and I recognize a little easier what is possible and what isn't for my situation. And going back to the Oticon. I'm not recommending Oticon over others. There are lots of different companies. I would say I'm a little leery of Bel-Tone and Miracle Ear dealers. They advertise so much I'm afraid they push just those lines and nobody else. You've find that companies like Phonak, Oticon, Starkey, Siemen, Resound, Widex, etc. have been in the business for decades and have little name recognition outside of the hearing aid "community" Pricewise, I spent $4500 for the two hearing aids and another $1000 for some accessories to use with them (tv and phone adaptors). I got discounts as a Blue Cross insurance member, even through there is no insurance coverage on my (and most everybody's, health insurance) that save me about $2,000. So, too long of a post. I'm stop now. You got questions, I'll try to answer based on my 50 years of experience.
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#6
01-15-2019, 09:37 AM
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I cannot help you since I do not have any hearing loss yet but... Just the other day a gentleman about your age contacted me to do some work for him. He has hearing loss and has an old Washburn guitar with barn door electronics that went bad. So he pulled the electronics out and was astonished how the 'sound port' helped him hear the guitar. So he's going to have me put sound ports in all his guitar.
Just something to think about.
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#7
01-15-2019, 09:43 AM
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I’m another one with experience here. I’ve worn hearing aids - mine are Starkey - for about 5 years now. When I try out an instrument to buy, I try it both with and without the hearing aids. The without part is because the instrument has to make me happy the way I’d normally be playing, in my living room, by myself. I don’t wear hearing aids around the house when I’m alone.
The typical pattern for age-related hearing loss is that the high frequencies drop off, so instruments won’t seem as bright. This is really important to keep in mind when you’re looking at new instruments, and aren’t wearing your hearing aids. Depending on the extent of your hearing impairment, the instrument may sound MUCH brighter to other people than it sounds to you, to the point of being over-bright. (Same is true of strings, BTW.) On the other side, though, most hearing aids aren’t restoring natural hearing. As others have said, they’re amplifiers, and depending on how new/good/expensive they are, they have some EQ. The EQ is basically a filter-bank, with the number of bands depending mostly on how expensive the hearing aids are. Mine were $4500 five years ago, and have 5 bands. At the time, the highest-end model had 7 bands, and was a couple of thousand more. A lot of hearing aids have some simple beamforming capability, meaning that they will pick up sounds coming from directly in front of you much better than sounds coming from a side. This works both for and against you when you’re playing a guitar that’s sitting in your lap. Some more advanced models claim to solve the “cocktail party” problem, which means that they can steer a beam more finely, and also can help to selectively filter out unwanted/unimportant conversations from important ones. This isn’t necessarily a good thing for musicians, either. Neither is any form of active noise suppression, which is generally pretty crude, and creates distortion and artifacts. Starkey (I can’t speak for Oticon), has software that’s used by the audiologist to program the filter bank, to tailor it to various response profiles (Like “Meeting”, “restaurant”, “normal”, etc). The really annoying thing is that they only sell that software to audiologists, which means you can’t tweak your own hearing aids, but have to go back for adjustments. My professional area was audio signal processing, and my audiologist hates when I come in — his training isn’t in signal processing, and I tend to ask a lot of questions he can’t answer, and ask for tweaks that he doesn’t know how to make. I won’t speak for all hearing aids, but I wouldn’t say that they make your instrument sound “natural” again. I actually prefer the sound of my guitar when I don’t have them in, even though I know I’m missing the higher frequency components of the sound. Maybe I need to bring my guitar with me to the audiologist, so we can create a profile that’s optimized for guitar playing. I bet he’ll REALLY love that! EDIT: My hearing has been getting dramatically worse over the last 6 months or so. After typing the response above, I decided to try playing with my hearing aids in. Yes, there’s a slight hiss. And I notice noises that I probably would never have noticed. But I picked up the closest guitar to my hands for a minute, which turned out to be a Washburn parlor guitar that I keep next to my bed, and wow - what a difference. It’s like a whole new experience. I guess I didn’t realize how bad things had gotten. I’m going to experiment with other guitars and different locations, but I think I have to revise my statement about how I prefer the sound of my guitars without my hearing aids. Maybe my hearing has deteriorated to the point where that’s no longer true. I still maintain that it’s not a totally “natural” sound. But it’s better than the dull sound I’ve gotten used to. It’s kind of ironic. I’m just about to buy the most expensive guitar I’ve ever owned, and the truth is that I’ll never hear the way it REALLY sounds. Last edited by Dino Silone; 01-15-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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#8
01-15-2019, 10:11 AM
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I would like to respond to this hearing aid post with a question. All input would be appreciated. I have profound hearing loss, mostly high frequencies, and I wear hearing aids. I play my guitar with and without hearing aids and of course the experience with hearing aids is preferable but either with or without hearing aids is acceptable when playing alone. Considering the higher db levels of sound due to the amplification provided by hearing aids, would it be less danger to my hearing if I played without wearing hearing aids? Thanks a lot for any response
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#9
01-15-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
I’d check with my audiologist if I were you, but I don’t believe you can crank the hearing aids so loud that they accelerate hearing loss by causing trauma to your auditory nerves. That would be a SERIOUS design flaw. If they do get that loud, have them adjusted so they don’t. I’ve heard it said that using the hearing aids more will actually slow down hearing loss. I don’t know if I believe that, but it would be another good thing to check with your audiologist.
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#10
01-15-2019, 10:33 AM
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I wear one hearing aid in my right ear. No one knows why my right ear can no longer hear higher frequencies while my left ear still can. But since I am a right handed player and my right ear is the closest to my guitar when I play, wearing my hearing aid definitely affects the sound I hear from my instrument.
I've had 2 different Siemens aids over the last 5+ years. While the latest model is better than my first one, my guitar still doesn't sound "natural" to me while wearing my hearing aid. I find using it is far better when I'm having a conversation with someone or lecturing in my classroom but I still prefer the sound of my guitars without using my hearing aid. I realize everyone will come to their own conclusions about what is "natural or correct" with regards to guitar tone but for me the artificial tone enhancement that works so well with spoken words really doesn't sound right when playing my guitar. Best, PJ
__________________
A Gibson A couple Martins
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#11
01-15-2019, 10:37 AM
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My experience which is relatively short having purchased an Oticon system some 4 months ago has been a big disappointment in regard to my guitar sound.
The acoustic sound usually so warm now sounds like a cheap electric guitar played through a radio, anyone remember the sixties... My audiologist has told me that my brain needs time to adjust to the situation however there has really been no change so far in regard to the guitar. On the other hand my wife is very happy that I've taken the step of getting the hearing aid. My hearing isn't so bad and I can still enjoying playing without the hearing aid. My audiologist has tweaked the system a few times but the problem remains, maybe it needs more time?
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#12
01-15-2019, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
When it comes down to it, though, your hearing aids are a microphone, an amp with some eq, maybe some “smart” processing for noise rejection, and a speaker. The mic and the speaker are designed to be as good as they can be and still fit into a really tiny package, meant to not be obvious. They’re not high-end high fidelity audio. And they’re optimized for speech, not music. So your “cheap electric guitar played through a radio” observation is right on. I don’t know when I passed the threshold to where that artificial sound is better than the “real” sound, but I may have passed it in the last few months. For your sake, I hope you never get there...
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#13
01-15-2019, 11:00 AM
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At age 63, I just had my hearing tested and I'm a candidate for hearing aids with mild to moderate loss.
My hearing loss is the result of decades of working in loud manufacturing environments without hearing protection. This test result makes my wife very happy, because she's always said that I have selective hearing.  I've finally admitted that some conversations are just noise to me in louder environments . When I go to acoustic shows, quite often I have no idea what the artist is saying between tunes. I also know that I have a bit of Tinnitus (sp?). The volume of the ringing in my ear depends on how tired I am. According to my guitar, its a constant high C. (8th Fret 1st string) My appointment to start the process for selecting and programming them is in 2 weeks. They provide 30 days of FREE unlimited appointments after committing to them to work out any kinks. She's already suggested that I bring in a guitar during the initial process to help with the programming. The audiologist likes Phonac with rechargeable batteries & Bluetooth for a few reasons; #1 on her list is that they provide a charging station for free whereas other mfr charge extra. She also thinks that Phonac is more compatible with Apple & Android than some other mfr's. Phonac apparently has apps that allow the user to quickly select a program depending on the environment they are in at the moment. I need to do some homework on the various brands as well as the pros & cons of each before the 1st appointment I"ll try to update as the process moves along
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2003 Froggy Bottom H-12 Deluxe 2019 Cordoba C-12 Cedar 2016 Godin acoustic archtop 2011 Godin Jazz model archtop Last edited by dkstott; 01-15-2019 at 11:33 AM.
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#14
01-15-2019, 11:18 AM
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I never play anymore without my hearing aids. For my situation, the HAs provide a full clear sound. When I'm not wearing them, the guitar sounds dull and I can't discern middle tones.
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Mike ======= A bunch of guitars.
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#15
01-15-2019, 11:31 AM
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