expanding mic collection with a good LDC

anton · #1 06-30-2019, 09:19 PM

I am thinking about purchasing another mic and want to get a good large diaphram condensor. I currently have a pair of Gefell M300's, and would like to get a something of similar calber. Primary uses would be recording mid side solo guitar, flute, banjo, maybe some vocals or micing a guitar amp.

I prefer to buy once, cry once, and generally look to what people I like are using and get that. I know Doug loves his Brauners, lots of folks use 414's, there are the usual Neumann suspects.

I dont mind saving for something nice, and just getting one at first. I'd like multiple patterns. I don't think I want to get a tube mic this first time around but I could be persuaded otherwise.

I was thinking about a single Brauner Phantom V, or maybe a pair of 414's for the same price. I would probably be buying used.

Curious what other folks are using.

jim1960 · #2 07-01-2019, 12:08 AM

Would you need it for vocals also?

ChuckS · #3 07-01-2019, 08:12 AM

Hi Anton,
Have you considered the Gefell UMT70S? I don't have any experience with it but you seem to like Gefell mics, and from what I've read this mic's single backplane design lends itself well to figure 8 symmetry and mid-side recording.

anton · #4 07-01-2019, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1960

Would you need it for vocals also?

Possibly, but its main use would be instrument micing.

KevWind · #5 07-01-2019, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anton

I am thinking about purchasing another mic and want to get a good large diaphram condensor. I currently have a pair of Gefell M300's, and would like to get a something of similar calber. Primary uses would be recording mid side solo guitar, flute, banjo, maybe some vocals or micing a guitar amp.

I prefer to buy once, cry once, and generally look to what people I like are using and get that. I know Doug loves his Brauners, lots of folks use 414's, there are the usual Neumann suspects.

I dont mind saving for something nice, and just getting one at first. I'd like multiple patterns. I don't think I want to get a tube mic this first time around but I could be persuaded otherwise.

I was thinking about a single Brauner Phantom V, or maybe a pair of 414's for the same price. I would probably be buying used.

Curious what other folks are using.

Couple more questions.

What mic pre are you using ? (not a big deal just a bit more info)

Also any "specific" thinking or reason for not tube ?

So it looks like it's primary use is instruments, and only secondary and only possibly vocals, yes ?

Some thoughts. since you have the Gefells perhaps a tube LDC would be a nice complimentary variation of tonality.
In only very general sense tube mics add a bit of tube warmth over an FET.

Make no mistake I love my Brauner Phantom V it is an outstanding all around instrument mic. And It also an excellent vocal mic for many vocalists. Also I will keep it

But since the price is now in the $3k range you might want to consider something like an ADK Z- Mod tube (which is what I use for my vocals now) . specifically the 251. For your use I would consider either the 251 for a bit more air, the 47 for a bit more warmth, or the 67 might be the best in between all around. Honestly I can't see you going wrong with any of these

Now one other consideration (if you might be interested in multi mics for more options ) might be Warm Audio which are offshore mics but get rave reviews for the price point (you could get a 47, a 251, a 87 and a 414 style all for uner $3k

I have some sound clips of the same song with the Brauner and an ADK 251 and 67 I'll try to post later today

jim1960 · #6 07-01-2019, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anton

I was thinking about a single Brauner Phantom V, or maybe a pair of 414's for the same price. I would probably be buying used.

I don't know much about the Brauner other than KevWind loving his. I've found that 414s are good workhorse mics but to my ears there's never anything special or impressive about them. I own one and it rarely gets used.

The Gefell UMT70S was mentioned and I've also heard good things about them, but I've no experience with them either.

I think you'd be very pleasantly surprised with a quality tube mic. Two that I can enthusiastically recommend are the Flea 47 and Flea 49. They're pricey but they're both absolutely amazing pieces of gear. I own the 47 and a friend of mine owns the 49, so my opinions of these mics comes from experience. Both mics provide a depth of sound that I haven't heard on less expensive mics claiming 47 and 49 pedigree. You hear people sometimes refer to some mics providing "3D" sound... both the Flea 47 and 49 do that. We did a shoot-out of my 47 against a bunch of LDCs that were a notch or two down in price and it just smoked them all.

Both can be used as instrument or vocal mics. I bought the 47 because it suits my voice better, my friend went with the 49 for the same reason. The 49 imparts less character from the microphone than the 47, and if I had a pocketful of money, I'd own a pair of 49s to use as instrument microphones Not that the 47 can't also serve that purpose very well, but the 49 imparts a bit less colorization than the 47 and I think instrument tracks benefit from that more natural sound. Bottom line is these microphones deliver the goods. I bought my 47 two years ago and I haven't even been curious about another LDC since then. That's my "buy once, cry once" recommendation.

Brent Hahn · #7 07-01-2019, 09:37 AM

I'd like to suggest that before you buy, you borrow or rent an LDC and try it out in your space. They generally have a broader cardioid pattern than small condensers and will hear more of your room. Two of them will hear way more of your room. It might be worth finding out about that.

If and when you do this testing, please bear in mind that when you record and then play back over speakers in the same room, you won't hear the effect of the room since you're still in it.

rockabilly69 · #8 07-01-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

If and when you do this testing, please bear in mind that when you record and then play back over speakers in the same room, you won't hear the effect of the room since you're still in it.

I totally agree with this! I've had the room throw me more than once when trying out different microphones!

rick-slo · #9 07-01-2019, 10:37 AM

Brauner Phantom V Microphone $3,000
Gefell UMT 70S FET $1700

Between these two I would go with the Gefell (same company as your M300 mikes).

KevWind · #10 07-01-2019, 11:25 AM

Ok I have the samples uploaded
Understanding of course that theses are vocal samples and your interest is mainly instrument.

So hear are the samples ADK Z Mod 251 and 67 and the Brauner Phantom V
(Also this is three different vocal performances and they are level matched by ear only) these are raw unprocessed tracks no verb no EQ no comp.
So I realize that it's not instruments but you can get an idea of the slight differences in tonal quality on the same source and the some general only idea of tube vs FET , Pretty subtle especially on the two ADK tube mics but it is there. Perhaps more noticeable on good studio monitors, or good HeadPhones

fitness1 · #11 07-01-2019, 07:10 PM

Heard great things about these - might be worth a look (seems like a great deal on used)

https://reverb.com/item/25602532-aud...a-matched-pair

min7b5 · #12 07-01-2019, 07:20 PM

I've really been loving my 414 XLS for mid/side duties.

sdelsolray · #13 07-01-2019, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitness1

Heard great things about these - might be worth a look (seems like a great deal on used)

https://reverb.com/item/25602532-aud...a-matched-pair

The Audix SCX25A is cardioid only. Anton wants a figure 8 pattern for M/S recording.

fitness1 · #14 07-01-2019, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

The Audix SCX25A is cardioid only. Anton wants a figure 8 pattern for M/S recording.

Ah - sorry I missed that

sdelsolray · #15 07-01-2019, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anton

I am thinking about purchasing another mic and want to get a good large diaphram condensor. I currently have a pair of Gefell M300's, and would like to get a something of similar calber. Primary uses would be recording mid side solo guitar, flute, banjo, maybe some vocals or micing a guitar amp.

I prefer to buy once, cry once, and generally look to what people I like are using and get that. I know Doug loves his Brauners, lots of folks use 414's, there are the usual Neumann suspects.

I dont mind saving for something nice, and just getting one at first. I'd like multiple patterns. I don't think I want to get a tube mic this first time around but I could be persuaded otherwise.

I was thinking about a single Brauner Phantom V, or maybe a pair of 414's for the same price. I would probably be buying used.

Curious what other folks are using.

For M/S solo fingerstyle guitar, many LD mics will do well as the side mic. Results will be greatly influenced by your room. Your added duties (flute, banjo, maybe some vocals or micing a guitar amp) makes the choice more delicate.

A few suggestions to research in the under $1k price range:

ADK (Thor and ADK Zeus (currently on sale at 2 for the price of 1))
Warm Audio (WA-87, WA-14, among others)
Peluso Labs has a 414 clone
Shure KSM44
AEA N22 or R84
Many others

North of $1k:

Gefell UMT 70S
Neumann U87
Many others