I'd like your opinion

[bls82261]

Did you pay with a credit card? Card issuers have a lot of power and buyer protection.

[Brucebubs]

I'll have the funds to buy a new guitar next month.
I've already started a list.
I'd like to know who made the guitar and who sold it so I can avoid them both.
Imagine trying to deal with this from the other side of the world after the added costs of shipping, Import Duty and Sales Tax?

Maybe PM me if you're not comfortable naming builder and seller, much appreciated.

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

A while ago a friend called me asking me my opinion on a few guitars. He wanted to buy a new really special guitar, and was leaning toward a very well respected boutique small shop builder. Had to get it online, but I told him he's pretty much like anything in that rarefied price point.

Well, he bought the guitar, was absolutely thrilled, signed up for some lessons and was stoked.

About a month later, he noticed a dead note. Half the length of decay from every other. He called the dealer about the problem. Dealer said, after three days, not my problem. Talk to the manufacturer.

Manufacturer said send us the guitar, we want you to be happy. We can fix it.

Manufacturer said, yes, we see you have a problem. The note is certainly what you say it is. Only had this happen two or three times in all our long history. Maybe we can add a brace that will solve the problem.

My friend thought about this over a weekend, and came to the conclusion any alteration of the guitar would bug him forever, respectfully stated this to the manufacturer who stated that they understood his position, wanted him to be happy, and would build him a new guitar any way he wanted it. If he wanted more inlay, he'd have to pay the difference. But the original guitar did after all have a problem.

Today he got an e mail from the manufacturer, stating that the dealer wouldn't cooperate with a refund, so they couldn't build him a new guitar. They were sending his guitar back to him. They were so sorry. They want him to be happy. Perhaps he could trade his guitar in on another, but don't use the same dealer. In other words, take the financial hit, pawn his defective guitar off on another unsuspecting consumer. Or sell it, and then they would build him anything he wanted. They, after all, want him to be happy.

This is so disappointing to me both from a dealer's standpoint, but ultimately the manufacturer's failure. The manufacturer finally stated they did not want to alter the guitar for fear of making it worse, but had no problem with a defective product being out in the world.

I've tried to state the facts as I know them. I have all this second hand from a friend whom I trust. I have left out names as it is for he to decide. It is he who has the e mail messages.

As far as he trying to pawn this off on an unsuspecting buyer, he recently sold a Collings he dinged when it was brand new. Had the ding repaired so as to be undetectable. He disclosed it to the buyer anyway.

Enough blame to go around? Should he name names? We are certainly talking twice the cost of any guitar I own.

A lot of guitars have a bum note somewhere. Maybe the errant resonance can be shifted so that it goes away. Alan is good on that stuff.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

I'll have the funds to buy a new guitar next month.
I've already started a list.
I'd like to know who made the guitar and who sold it so I can avoid them both.
Imagine trying to deal with this from the other side of the world after the added costs of shipping, Import Duty and Sales Tax?

Maybe PM me if you're not comfortable naming builder and seller, much appreciated.

Bruce, yes, PM is best. The Forum has a general rule of not slamming builders, as I recall, so a Mod would probably remove it anyway.

sm

[Mark L]

My regrets and sympathies to the receiver of the raw end of this deal.

And, I too would be very interested in the identity of bot maker ans dealer. If public posting here is not in order I will certainly appreciate a pm, which will be kept private.

Best wishes and thanks.

[89bruin]

The policy forbids “brand wars” ... I don’t see anything forbidding mentioning a maker or dealer in the context of sharing one’s experience with a builder or dealer. I would be careful to suggest one negative impresson or experience was normative. If there’s a complete ban on negative assessments of particular builders or dealers much of this forum’s utility would be gone.

[jaymarsch]

So what I am gleaning from the original post is that a guy took delivery of a new guitar and for an entire month the guitar seemed fine and then the dead note made it's entrance. He contacted the dealer and the dealer responded after three days and said basically contact the manufacturer. Then is sounds as though after agreeing that there was an issue and agreeing that he should get a new replacement guitar (inlay issues separate), they reneged at some point and decided that they were not responsible somehow. Makes me wonder if they consulted their legal team or insurers and felt that they maybe could get by claiming that something might have happened to the guitar in that month that could have voided the warranty. Otherwise, as others have stated, it just simply makes little sense. I hope that the guitar purchaser is able to get to the bottom of it and get things settled amicably.

Best,
Jayne

[Br1ck]

The problem was supposed to be sorted out between the dealer and the manufacturer, but the dealer would not issue a refund.. I believe the manufacturer was trying to resolve this. But when handling it through a dealer refund fell through, they said sorry, we can't do anything about it.

As to the time lapse, think of it this way. What if you bought your wife a flawless diamond. Some time later you had it appraised and it did not grade out correctly. You had enjoyed the diamond, but now will never look at it the same again. It can not be sold as the quality you bought. The jewler said they made a mistake, but they can cut the bad part out for you. Would you be happy?

I use the term manufacturer in the sense they make the guitar. No assumptions of size should be made. I will not trash the reputation until there is absolutely no hope, and even then it is not my place to do so.

At the very least, the dealer's right to sell this brand should be revoked.

That which is legal is not always right.

Believe me, I can think of many ways to damage the maker's and seller's reputations, but that is not and never will be my intent.

So far, we have:

Hey, it's minor. Forget about it. Consumer being too picky.

It's the dealer's problem. They need to deal with it on behalf of the consumer.

It's a factory problem. They should make the consumer whole.

I will restate the maker's refusal to alter the guitar for fear of making matters worse. Reportedly it is being shipped back to the consumer with a so sorry we couldn't work things out.

[Br1ck]

One must always be mindful of expectations the higher up the chain of cost. Those that can command a premium price must accept a higher standard of criticism.

[archerscreek]

If the manufacturer admitted fault and offered to build a replacement for the buyer under warranty, why should the dealer have to refund the buyer money? Dealer made sale. Item under warranty turned out to be defective. Mfgr said they’ll fix or replace item under warranty. Buyer is made whole under warranty.

The only hiccup here seems to be that in order for the buyer to get a more expensive guitar (more inlay) as a replacement, the first dealer has to refund the original cost and lose his profit from that sale in order for dealer #2 to get the sale of the more expensive second guitar. Seriously, what dealer in their right mind would agree to that?

To simplify and recap as I understand the situation, dealer sells item X to buyer. After store’s return policy period, buyer discovers mfg defect. Item X is covered under warranty. Mfgr agrees to fix or replace. Buyer will eventually be made whole and get the quality guitar he originally thought he was buying. Nothing more, nothing less. All is as it should be.

I don’t think the dealer should have to lose the sale because buyer now wants a different level guitar as a replacement.

[BT55]

Originally Posted by bls82261

Did you pay with a credit card? Card issuers have a lot of power and buyer protection.

You can always call your credit card company and start a claim. They will put a hold on your payment until the dispute is resolved.

[Speedwagon]

Originally Posted by BT55

You can always call your credit card company and start a claim. They will put a hold on your payment until the dispute is resolved. If you didn’t pay by credit card shame on you.

The OP didn’t pay by credit card...the OP didn’t pay at all...his friend bought the guitar.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by archerscreek

If the manufacturer admitted fault and offered to build a replacement for the buyer under warranty, why should the dealer have to refund the buyer money? Dealer made sale. Item under warranty turned out to be defective. Mfgr said they’ll fix or replace item under warranty. Buyer is made whole under warranty.

The only hiccup here seems to be that in order for the buyer to get a more expensive guitar (more inlay) as a replacement, the first dealer has to refund the original cost and lose his profit from that sale in order for dealer #2 to get the sale of the more expensive second guitar. Seriously, what dealer in their right mind would agree to that?

To simplify and recap as I understand the situation, dealer sells item X to buyer. After store’s return policy period, buyer discovers mfg defect. Item X is covered under warranty. Mfgr agrees to fix or replace. Buyer will eventually be made whole and get the quality guitar he originally thought he was buying. Nothing more, nothing less. All is as it should be.

I don’t think the dealer should have to lose the sale because buyer now wants a different level guitar as a replacement.

I completely agree. Had to reread every post from the beginning to make sure I wasn't missing something. I don't see how Dealer #1 has any responsibility for this well over a month after the sale. The problem now should be resolved DIRECT from the manufacturer to the customer. No money changes hands. The customer is the original owner, manufacturer takes back the defective guitar and builds him a perfect new one and sends it DIRECT to him when completed.

If the customer chose to buy a different guitar from another dealer, well, that's his prerogative. I guess he'll own two guitars from that builder once he gets the other one back, rebuilt under warranty. But he has no right to demand a refund from the first dealer well outside of the trial period.

[MattM]

Originally Posted by brencat

I completely agree. Had to reread every post from the beginning to make sure I wasn't missing something. I don't see how Dealer #1 has any responsibility for this well over a month after the sale. The problem now should be resolved DIRECT from the manufacturer to the customer. No money changes hands. The customer is the original owner, manufacturer takes back the defective guitar and builds him a perfect new one and sends it DIRECT to him when completed.

If the customer chose to buy a different guitar from another dealer, well, that's his prerogative. I guess he'll own two guitars from that builder once he gets the other one back, rebuilt under warranty. But he has no right to demand a refund from the first dealer well outside of the trial period.

This is the correct answer. The entire situation is ridiculous and if it were me I would be owning a nice little guitar company by the time the dust settled. As someone who sells a lot of high end merchandise in my business, the manufacturer is the one who ultimately is on the hook for this. If your friend wanted a higher level guitar, he should have had to handle it through the original dealer or directly, but no matter what happened, a new guitar should have been made. The dealer not giving a refund should be irrelevant and sounds like a copout.

If your friend paid with a credit card, he has the right to dispute the charges. When this happens, the CC company immediately takes the money from the dealer and puts it into an escrow account until the dispute is settled, and notifies the dealer of the details of the dispute. If your friend has copies of an email where they admit the item was "not as described", he will submit that in his dispute and I would think it will be very hard for the dealer/manufacturer to win out and get their money back. They will also have to pay fees associated with the CC company researching the claims.

If the facts are as you are presenting them, it's just bad on many levels. Even the fact that they would email him and tell him they aren't going to stand behind it is a piss poor way to treat a customer. Hiding behind email is the cowards way to deal with it.

[Jeff Mc]

Pretty strange. The only reason that I could see for the manufacturer's change in tone is if the dealer never paid them for the guitar. Then it might make sense that they would tell him that he would need to take it up with the dealer.