Advice on Resonator for Slide Playing

[jbhiller]

Hi All!

I'm looking to get a guitar for the purpose of playing slide. My Gibson J45 with 12 gauge (high E) is setup perfectly for fingerstyle and strumming, but its action is too low for the E and B strings for slide playing. I can tune it up to open A and it's slightly better, but I want to get something just for slide playing.

What can folks tell me in terms of type/brand to look at? I think I'll largely be playing blues and folk and will go with a round neck (to play Spanish style, as opposed to lap).

There are so many resonators out there that I cannot tell much. What's more, it's hard to play a broad spectrum of resonators in stores--especially right now.

Thoughts on Gretsch, Recording King, Dobro Honeydipper, Beard, etc? Wood, Brass?

THANK YOU!!!

[pjmacd]

Knowing your budget would help us give you better advice. With that said, I had a Gretsch Honey Dripper that played well and had quite a good sound. I sold it when I came across a used National at a good price.

Whether you want a wood or metal body, and whether you want a single cone or a tricone, are matters of personal taste. Listen to as many good quality YouTube videos as you can find to get some idea about this.

Among less expensive resonators, Republic instruments have received some praise that I've read. I have not personally played one. Another name to consider is Michael Messer. He is a well-known British bluesman and has his own line of instruments built overseas. If you have the disposable cash, then National, Dobro and Mule resonators are top of the line, with prices to match.

[The Bard Rocks]

I think there are none better than Nationals. Mule would be up there but still second in my book. You might like a Beard too, but that would be wood-bodied. I am delighted with my wood-bodied Franks, but it's one-of-a-kind, not manufactured. National had a 2 CD set that compared all of their models. Well worth investing in it to really hear the differences between, say tri-cone and single cone, wood vs steel, and much more.

The brands you mentioned are much more affordable and I have heard generally good things about each of them. You can be perfectly happy with these if you keep away from the more expensive ones in the first paragraph. If you are dipping your toes in the water, get one of them and trade up later if the sound "takes" with you.

I prefer steel to brass. Wood gives a quite different sound than steel. If you want to play low-down blues, go with steel. If you want more of a general use, then maybe wood might suit you better.

[archerscreek]

Buy a used National. They sound and play great and will hold their value, if not increase.

[Bob Womack]

To a beginner, all the different types of resonators can be pretty hard to sort out. I went through that a while back and wrote up my experience in my review of the Gretsch Honey Dipper bell brass biscuit reso, HERE. If nothing else you can use it as a jumping off point.

Bob

[Silly Moustache]

Nationals are the top of the tree - no doubt.

The steel bodied ones are heavy and very "shrill". The bell brass bodies are sweeter but even heavier. I traded my style "O" for a wooden bodied Estralita which still has plenty of punch, but is far more comfortable to play.

I have no personal experience of Beard round necks but they seem to make only spider cone guitars which, to my mind are a little too sweet for bottleneck blues.

The cheap Gretsch models will not have anything like the volume you'd exect from a National, but they would be a cheap initial purchase.


Important point - I have the action on my National set the same as all my other guitars, and use standard medium stings but with an extra .017 on the 1st string.

The "art" is to play with the left hand as lightly a possible and to put the power in with your picking hand.

This might help :

[MC5C]

I favor either a 14 fret neck or a cutaway 12 fret neck for bottleneck playing, since you go to the 12th fret a lot with a slide. I like spider cone resonators, I have two. An original 1935 Dobro and a recent Gold Tone Beard Special. Gold Tone builds them to Paul Beards specifications and quality, they are about as close to a small shop Luthier made instrument as you can buy, so I recommend not overlooking them.

[mercy]

Are there any with a wide nut? I prefer wood bodies.

[BluesBelly]

Paul Beard makes high end high quality resonator And Dobro guitars. He also has the Gold Tone line of affordable models. Bone nuts and made very well. I have had a Gold Tone round neck for about 10 years. It’s been a great slide guitar.

https://goldtonemusicgroup.com/goldtone/instruments/pbr

Blues

[jbhiller]

Thank you all! Great advice.

I really want to spend less than $1k, and part of me thinks, "can I get something decedent for $500?" I like the idea of making myself earn a real National or similar.

I want to avoid lap style for now. I also think that I won't fingerpick or flatpick much with it and will dedicate it to slide.

Have folks tried nut extenders or do you just get the action set up high?

[Greenstar]

I picked up a used National from a local shop a few weeks ago. Guitar sounds amazing. I had a Gretsch Honeydipper last year that I ended up taking back. It definitely didn't project like the National does and while the tone was ok I always felt like something was lacking. The National just sounds, and plays, much better in my opinion.

[Shortfinger]

Why is no one including a case with a Gretch Honey Dipper? All the listings I see new or used are guitar-only.

[Robin, Wales]

I did wonder if I should post on this thread as I owned a resonator guitar company for 10 years and worked with Michael Messer for 8 years. But I’m now long retired from all that.

My suggestions may be a little contrary to the general folklore surrounding reso guitars and playing bottle neck slide – so you can take it or leave it.

My first piece of advice would be to separate ‘bottle neck slide playing’ and ‘resonator guitar’ in your mind. They don’t have to go together. Bottle neck slide is just a playing style and a resonator guitar is, well, just a guitar. Round neck reso guitars were not specifically designed with bottle neck slide playing in mind, they were just built as loud guitars. The earliest squareneck reso guitars were however made for Hawaiian lap style slide playing.

You don’t need a reso guitar to play great bottleneck slide. Ry Cooder has made a career as a slide player without touching one. And the world’s most famous bottleneck slide track (or at least the one NASA sent into space for aliens to find in the future) Blind Willie Johnson’s ‘Dark is the Night, Cold is the Ground’ was not played on a reso guitar. And, of course, there was Robert Johnson with his L1. And I had the opportunity to meet with Louisiana Red and hear his tails of the greats – he played a standard Gibson J45 on stage (just mic’d) and had a collection of slides to get a different feel to different songs (copper pipe for songs by his friend Son House).

So, my non-reso guitar suggestion for bottle neck slide playing would be to find something very cheap on Ebay, mid to small bodied, with a reasonable nut width (! ¾” or above would be OK). Having perfectly level frets or a perfect neck angle does not really matter, so you can risk taking a punt on an Ebay ‘beater’. Plywood B/S would be OK as you want the least amount of overtones – the basic guitar doesn’t have to sound ‘pretty’. Generating great slide guitar tone is more in the set-up and in your hands than in the guitar woods.

You want some room at the nut as most slide work takes place 3rd to 5th fret. Folks obsess about a higher action at the 12th, but actually a little room in the lower frets will serve you better. So, tap off the nut and put a very thin shim under it. Fit medium strings. Again you want to bring down the overtones so try monel or pure nickel. Fit a 0.015 first string – tuned down to D this will give you a solid platform for your slide. Use a heavy slide – spend some money on this, it is worth it. You will build up quite a collection of slides over time as each has a unique tone. Slide playing is 80% about controlling the sound with damping behind the slide or pick blocking. As your technique improves, so will your tone and the volume you can generate.

If you do want a reso guitar then you have options:

Body type: Brass, steel or wood. 12 or 14 fret

Cone: Biscuit bridge, spider bridge or tricone

For your first reso, I would be inclined to go biscuit bridge. You’ll get more bass from a biscuit bridge guitar, and they are the most popular with blues players today. They are sort of closer in tone to a standard guitar but with that magical ‘valve amp’ drive and dynamic range potential that is the signature of a reso guitar. The round neck tricone is lovely but, personally, I think they excel as a jazz guitar providing that swing rhythm for a small band, which is sort of what they started out as being sold for. The old square neck tricone however is a lap style slide players dream. Having said that some folks love the ticone for bottleneck slide. I’ve never been that keen on round neck spider bridge guitars for bottleneck blues although I played square neck dobro in a bluegrass band for over 10 years, which is where the spider bridge is most at home in my book but some love the country twang of a spiderbridge with a bottle neck slide. The only reso I still own is a squareneck spider bridge guitar.

For the body: 12 or 14 fret doesn’t audibly effect the tone. 14 fret bodies are a little smaller but everything else is the same. Steel is a little ‘harsher’ than brass – but the tone difference is very, very subtle and I can tell you that with a well set-up reso you’d be hard pressed to tell them apart in a blind test. Don’t listen to what others say about the difference – I’ve set up around 800 or so reso guitars and know that most of the tone is in the set-up not the body metal. I’ve heard folk swear that a steel body is more traditional for bottle neck blues – well tell that to Son House!

Wood is a little more subtle, a more rounded tone. If you buy wood, go for a heavy plywood build – the body is a speaker cabinet. The old wood bodied 1928/29 Triolian was a wonderful guitar – a few makers are copying it. If you go for wood, search out something like that.

My personal choice for a first purchase reso would be a 12 fret biscuit bridge in either painted steel or nickel plated brass – they are the classic workhorses. You don’t need a 14 fret or a cutaway to give you more room at the 12th as by the time you get up there you’ll see that players bring their thumb round to damp behind the slide so you are basically playing with a flat left hand on the fretboard rather than holding on to the neck.

I’m not going to comment on brands save to say that the ‘ very best’ are not made by Don Young at National Resophonic (although they are lovely guitars) but by Mike Lewis of Fine Resophonic in Paris.

At the budget end of the market there are a lot of choices – you do need to play a few to make up our mind. The bodies and cones from China are very good, the necks are variable and they all need a good set-up (which is more extensive that a standard acoustic guitar set-up). Who knows, you may find an old one of mine second hand somewhere:

[SpruceTop]

Here's a resonator I got last March that I think is an excellent value at about $800 delivered with optional pickup installed, and it has wonderful tone and craftsmanship:

My first playing test of the Republic Duolian in Tarnished Nickel Finish is pleasurable in that the guitar sounds really good both acoustically and plugged into my UltraSound AG30, and in that the guitar is set up quite well with darn good craftsmanship.

The amplified tone from the Republic Guitars-installed Schatten NR2 is noise-free and sounds surprisingly full and quite well-balanced string-to-string in its output and tone. I'm routing the Schatten's passive output through my new Sarno Steel Guitar Black Box Tube Preamp and that likely accounts for some of the warmth and roundness of amplified tone. The Vari-Z variable impedance knob of the SGBB acts to find the sweet spot impedance for the pickup and also acts as a kind of volume control as the more the knob is turned toward the higher impedance end of its travel the more there is a noticeable volume increase along with the increasing fullness of tone. I've found the most pleasing tone is at the 1 Megaohm end of the knob. I also have an LR Baggs Session DI that I'll try the Schatten through to hear what that can do for its amplified tone. Republic Guitars Website

Photos of Republic Duolian including one of the Schatten NR-2 Biscuit Bridge Piezo Pickup

[blue]

Originally Posted by jbhiller

Thank you all! Great advice.

I really want to spend less than $1k, and part of me thinks, "can I get something decedent for $500?" I like the idea of making myself earn a real National or similar.

I want to avoid lap style for now. I also think that I won't fingerpick or flatpick much with it and will dedicate it to slide.

Have folks tried nut extenders or do you just get the action set up high?

I agree with spending less than a $1000 for one reason. You can find a National for $1,500 used if you are patient.

So spending two thirds $1,500 on a lesser guitar doesn't make sense. Find a used gretsch for $350. If you find you love resos, look for a used National. All of mine have been bought used.

As to action, if the action hasn't been lowered by the first owner, it should be usable. If you have no experience with resos, altering action is not something you want to get into. So I would definitely ask on Reverb or Ebay "has the action been lowered" If so, look for another deal.

Have fun with it. Don't put pressure on yourself about "earning" a nice guitar. If down the road you have the money, and still want a National level guitar, look for a killer deal. As long as you are patient and find the deal you want, you "earned" it.