“Gluten Free”: Overblown?

[Martie]

Originally Posted by Dirk Hofman

Thank you but the links didn’t work. Are those studies showing negative effects of gluten or hypotheses about why it’s bad?

Yes, very much so. I can't understand why they're not working.

Try these...

https://www.marioninstitute.org/zonu...ght-junctions/

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/conten...n-role-zonulin

[mesa]

Good Podcast

https://nutritionfacts.org/audio/a-glut-of-gluten/

[aknow]

Originally Posted by Wadcutter

What do you guys think of all this 21st Century gluten phobia going down all around us? Is gluten REALLY all the food allergy problem that it’s ginned up to be or is this some kind of bull crap to gouge the consumer into paying more for “gluten free” products? And man those products are WAY more expensive than stuff with gluten in it. Maybe it is legit, I don’t know, but it sure seems to send my red flags a flyin’.

We first started advising patients about U.S. wheat issues in the mid 1980's. Most are susceptible to the body recognizing wheat as a pro-inflammatory allergen, but based on your lifestyle, genetics, and exercise habits, it may be hardly noticed. It's due to the way the us manufactures breads, baked goods, and whole grains: cheaply, adding toxins, removing vital nutrients. Over time--the mild to moderate inflammatory responses destroy and alter your appetite. It's one of the reasons there are so many obese and unhealthy Americans.
Typically effects mid 20's to 30's females "My stomach keeps bloating". takes probiotics and feels better. As you age, it affects you more, allergies, sinusitis, asthma complications, lowered energy, joint pains.... It's not like getting M.S., but it's not made up. Everything in America is overblown if there is profit to be made. The American food supply is primarily toxic. Grow your own!

[aknow]

Originally Posted by Davis Webb

The data shows the incidence rate in the US as;

2–13/100,000.

So about 5 people out of 100,000 have the gene. That is no epidemic.

https://www.gastrojournal.org/articl...199-X/fulltext

I can Guarantee you that the research you cited was bought and paid for by self-interest groups. Not very relevant.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by aknow

I can Guarantee you that the research you cited was bought and paid for by self-interest groups. Not very relevant.

"Self-interest groups"? From the paper:

"Supported by NIH grant DK 50979, Autoimmune Prevention Center grant 19 AI50864, Diabetes Endocrinology Research Center grants P30 DK57516 and the General Clinical Research Centers Program NCRR M01RR00069."

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by aknow

We first started advising patients about U.S. wheat issues in the mid 1980's. Most are susceptible to the body recognizing wheat as a pro-inflammatory allergen, but based on your lifestyle, genetics, and exercise habits, it may be hardly noticed. It's due to the way the us manufactures breads, baked goods, and whole grains: cheaply, adding toxins, removing vital nutrients. Over time--the mild to moderate inflammatory responses destroy and alter your appetite. It's one of the reasons there are so many obese and unhealthy Americans.
Typically effects mid 20's to 30's females "My stomach keeps bloating". takes probiotics and feels better. As you age, it affects you more, allergies, sinusitis, asthma complications, lowered energy, joint pains.... It's not like getting M.S., but it's not made up. Everything in America is overblown if there is profit to be made. The American food supply is primarily toxic. Grow your own!

Very very hard to over stress the importance of the" bolded statements" and how significant a role it plays in the overall problem.

[Martie]

It seems that oftentimes there are two kinds of 'science': the kind that we recognise because it supports our original hypothesis; and the kind that we have a strong aversion to because it disagrees with our original hypothesis. What our original hypotheses is *actually* based on (when we REALLY peel the layers back) seems mostly irrelevant to some and confirmation bias rules supreme (even at the expense of our health, which I've witnessed on countless occasions), lest we be forced to admit that we may not actually know everything - to change our minds/eating/spending habits...(gasp!).

The OP was asking if the gluten-free thing is 'overblown'...some kind of 'phobia'? It's interesting to consider that a phobia is a strong aversion to something, at which point I refer the reader to the beginning of this post. As such, it's highly debatable which 'phobia' is worthy of the most discussion?

Ultimately, its entirely up to each of us what we believe, eat, spend our money on but there are consequences for our choices, whichever way we swing (and I'm very happy with the choices I've made). I've looked into this and based those choices on balanced, keen, open-minded, ongoing observation. As such, I avoid gluten at every given opportunity (see my previous posts).

[Otterhound]

Originally Posted by Martie

Try these...

https://www.marioninstitute.org/zonu...ght-junctions/

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/conten...n-role-zonulin

My partner sells something completely unrelated that has enormous health benefits and has collosal backing by science - and yet it is constantly ridiculed by, no less, those with a penchant for a crazy little thing called confirmation bias (coupled with arrogance, which is always rooted in ignorance).

And fear not, you can get GF beer!

I am aware of gluten free beer . In fact , I don't drink beer .
I gotta ask about the claimed negative effects of microwaves as listed in the Marion Institute article . Bore me with details please . If this is the old position that microwaves speed up molecules , it's BS . When anything is heated , it's molecules speed up . The position that microwaves are harmful because they speed up molecules is nothing more that a conclusion looking for evidence instead of evidence supporting a conclusion . When cavemen threw meat on a spit over a fire , the resulting heat sped up the molecules of the meat on the spit over the fire . Same goes for everything that is heated form the beginning of time .
Oh yeah , I see that your partner sells something . Is it snake oil ? Convince that you are right and I will change .

[RedJoker]

So just curious, those that don't think a major of gluten issues are real, what is the downside if others chose a gluten free diet? I see a lot of posts here that seem to have a lot of passion against gluten free food but I guess I don't see why anyone would care. If I don't like something, I simply don't buy it and just move on with life. Why the rage?

[Martie]

Originally Posted by Otterhound

I am aware of gluten free beer . In fact , I don't drink beer .
I gotta ask about the claimed negative effects of microwaves as listed in the Marion Institute article . Bore me with details please . If this is the old position that microwaves speed up molecules , it's BS . When anything is heated , it's molecules speed up . The position that microwaves are harmful because they speed up molecules is nothing more that a conclusion looking for evidence instead of evidence supporting a conclusion . When cavemen threw meat on a spit over a fire , the resulting heat sped up the molecules of the meat on the spit over the fire . Same goes for everything that is heated form the beginning of time .
Oh yeah , I see that your partner sells something . Is it snake oil ? Convince that you are right and I will change .

I don't drink beer either.

And I don't use microwaves, never have, never will. It's your perogative to use them...enjoy.

It's a pity you would you automatically assume my partner sells snake oil - as a naturally cynical person (by which I mean one who is paying attention) I find that rather odd, especially as I've made no attempt whatsoever to sell anything...

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Martie

It seems that oftentimes there are two kinds of 'science': the kind that we recognise because it supports our original hypothesis; and the kind that we have a strong aversion to because it disagrees with our original hypothesis. What our original hypotheses is *actually* based on (when we REALLY peel the layers back) seems mostly irrelevant to some and confirmation bias rules supreme (even at the expense of our health, which I've witnessed on countless occasions), lest we be forced to admit that we may not actually know everything - to change our minds/eating/spending habits...(gasp!).

The OP was asking if the gluten-free thing is 'overblown'...some kind of 'phobia'? It's interesting to consider that a phobia is a strong aversion to something, at which point I refer the reader to the beginning of this post. As such, it's highly debatable which 'phobia' is worthy of the most discussion?

Ultimately, its entirely up to each of us what we believe, eat, spend our money on but there are consequences for our choices, whichever way we swing (and I'm very happy with the choices I've made). I've looked into this and based those choices on balanced, keen, open-minded, ongoing observation. As such, I avoid gluten at every given opportunity (see my previous posts).

To clarify there is only one kind of science, but there certainly are all kinds of, cherry picked, out of context , agenda driven and funded, half baked incomplete , pretend science, which as you say fuels conformation bias .

[Martie]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

So just curious, those that don't think a major of gluten issues are real, what is the downside if others chose a gluten free diet? I see a lot of posts here that seem to have a lot of passion against gluten free food but I guess I don't see why anyone would care. If I don't like something, I simply don't buy it and just move on with life. Why the rage?

We have been lied to about so many things it's not at all surprising that people struggle to tell what is, and isn't, worth railing against. And yes, there are certain types who jump on every band-waggon without question, who are often loud, obnoxious and insist everyone does things their way etc. Likewise, there are those who question nothing and who ferociously defend the status-quo. But I think we have to be extremely mindful (more than ever) not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and to deal with each issue separately, judging it on its merits, or lack of. But, like I said, there are those who buy into everything without question, and those who do the opposite - and both can be equally voracious and out of balance. I much prefer the middle way. And from what I can tell so far, so does my health.

[Dirk Hofman]

Originally Posted by Martie

Yes, very much so. I can't understand why they're not working.

Try these...

https://www.marioninstitute.org/zonu...ght-junctions/

https://www.fxmedicine.com.au/conten...n-role-zonulin

Thanks, those worked. Not studies, but scholarly articles. Not sure how one could conclude gluten is bad from those. I’d like to see a study controlling for gluten with a negative outcome to be convinced. Worth keeping an eye on though.

[Martie]

Originally Posted by KevWind

To clarify there is only one kind of science, but there certainly are all kinds of, cherry picked, out of context , agenda driven and funded, half baked incomplete , pretend science, which as you say fuels conformation bias .

Indeed, and 'science' is supposed to be a perpetual state of enquiry etc. And it's very difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff (if you'll pardon the pun!), especially since food became an industry, around the time of the industrial revolution.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by Martie

We have been lied to about so many things it's not at all surprising that people struggle to tell what is, and isn't, worth railing against. And yes, there are certain types who jump on every band-waggon without question, who are often loud, obnoxious and insist everyone does things their way etc. Likewise, there are those who question nothing and who ferociously defend the status-quo. But I think we have to be extremely mindful (more than ever) not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and to deal with each issue separately, judging it on its merits, or lack of. But, like I said, there are those who buy into everything without question, and those who do the opposite - and both can be equally voracious and out of balance. I much prefer the middle way. And from what I can tell so far, so does my health.

Like you, I tend to be in the middle but that's my point. I don't seek out gluten free items but I have friends that do. One is truly a celiac, others don't like the discomfort, and I think others are using it as an excuse. I couldn't care less if someone choses to 'jump on the bandwagon' or not. It simply does not affect me. I'm happy that my friends feel better, for scientifically proven reasons or placebo effect. Either way, they are happier and likely healthier. There's no downside.

I guess I just don't understand the anger that some folks seem to have.