Long search for next guitar starts now.

[JackH]

Hey guys,

Having picked up playing again after a few years I find I still like shopping for guitars even when I don't NEED one. I still look. I played as a teenager some but quit. In the early 80's I bought an Ovation. It was a very nice guitar. Sounded great and was beautiful as well. My ability was far from adequate to judge how a guitar plays or sounds to a certain extent. I read in an article once that Ovations didn't have the sustain you could get from an all wood acoustic when not amplified. I have no idea if that was or is true but it's an issue since I have Ovation on my list of manufactures I'm interested in. Other than Ovation I have Ibanez, Taylor, Takamine and Martin on my list of guitars to try. There are only about 5 music stores within reasonable driving distance from me. I've always said I wouldn't buy a guitar unless I played it first. Now there are guitars on the internet and I'm sure lots of them are purchased. Also for me, my ability is still not all that great. Also my ear isn't very good either when trying to play by ear. So I probably won't be able to tell any difference in a guitar I play in a store and if I then buy the exact same model on the internet. But comparing different models is another story. That's where I will start my search by playing guitars I can get access to.

I would love to get opinions or examples of guitar purchases on the internet. One thing is what is a normal return policy. I played a Fender acoustic in a store the last time I was shopping and I didn't like it at all. There wasn't anything wrong with the guitar. Just not the sound I was hoping for. If I had been shopping on the internet I might have bought that guitar and not known I didn't like it until it arrived. But later that day I played an Ibanez AW that I loved. I went home and after 2 or 3 hours I went back and bought that one. I still have it and still love it.

Another issue about me getting a new guitar is why would I want one similar to the Ibanez? It's a cutaway dreadnaught. I like most types of music but when I play I seem to lean towards stuff I can play and sing by myself more than songs that would require a band more. James Taylor, Gordon Lightfoot, Beatles, Simon & Garfunkle, etc. Another option is to search for an electric guitar that would be good for this type music. Haven't really considered that until just now.

I have no time frame for this search. Might be a year or two (or three). I have no huge desire to get something else unless it is something I don't have now. I have a beautiful acoustic electric Ibanez that sounds great to me and is pretty easy to play. That's another thing I demand. Extremely low action. I won't get one that is harder to play. That may limit my options regarding sound some but I have to live with that. The action on my Ibanez is pretty low and I use light (.01-.47) gauge strings.

I'm going to try steel string acoustics with different body shapes. I want to play a "not wife" guitar. It's the body shape with a skinny waiste. hehe Don't worry, she's in the next room.

Any thoughts on my journey are appreciated. Oh yeah, I want the target price to be $1000.00. Realistically that means $500-$1300. I'm thinking a price between $1000 and $1300 would involve a guitar I almost couldn't live without if I could afford it. On the other hand I don't know what my financial situation will be in a year or two.

Jack

[kcnbys]

My recommendation for a great sounding and very playable guitar, that's different than your Ibanez, and is all solid wood AND in your price range is a Taylor 324. It's a fantastic guitar with a smaller waist than your Ibanez, and it's all mahogany (back, sides, and top). It has a great, warm sound, and would be great playing the type of music your mentioned. They are right at the sub 1300 price point. Every one I've played was stellar. Taylor's are a very safe "risk" ordering online due to their high level of consistency. For a couple hundred more you could get the "324e", which would have electronics for plugging in.

[JackH]

Originally Posted by kcnbys

My recommendation for a great sounding and very playable guitar, that's different than your Ibanez, and is all solid wood AND in your price range is a Taylor 324. It's a fantastic guitar with a smaller waist than your Ibanez, and it's all mahogany (back, sides, and top). It has a great, warm sound, and would be great playing the type of music your mentioned. They are right at the sub 1300 price point. Every one I've played was stellar. Taylor's are a very safe "risk" ordering online due to their high level of consistency. For a couple hundred more you could get the "324e", which would have electronics for plugging in.

That does look like a beautiful guitar. I did forget to mention that I do want the guitar to have a pickup/preamp. I don't perform at all and probably never will. I would like to though. I loved what little performing I have done many years ago. But just sitting here I like being able to add effects. Chorus, reverb or flanger sounds good to me. When I picked up playing again I got a Fender Squire and Mustang 1 amp with the intention of playing rock. I learned a few songs and worked on some scales a bit but before long I had the acoustic out again. Evidently that's what I'm destined to play based on the direction my actual playing has gone. If I were going to play rock I would have put more time into it years ago. Anyway, I've been using the Mustang with my acoustic to add effects. That has been good but a couple of days ago I used my acoustic amp. It's a 30W drive with reverb and a mic input. The first chord I strumed with no reverb almost blew me away. It sounded 10 times better with no effects than the Mustang does with no effects. I see how much difference the proper amp/guitar match makes. I may need to get an effects pedal for my acoustic.

Another thing about not amplifying my acoustic is I used to very often find myself in places to play and my guitar just wasn't loud enough. So if I get another guitar I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE more volume un-amplified I still think I need a pre-amp. I don't want a $1000 guitar to be limited in locations I will play it.

[Guildman]

Originally Posted by JackH

That does look like a beautiful guitar. I did forget to mention that I do want the guitar to have a pickup/preamp. I don't perform at all and probably never will. I would like to though. I loved what little performing I have done many years ago. But just sitting here I like being able to add effects. Chorus, reverb or flanger sounds good to me. When I picked up playing again I got a Fender Squire and Mustang 1 amp with the intention of playing rock. I learned a few songs and worked on some scales a bit but before long I had the acoustic out again. Evidently that's what I'm destined to play based on the direction my actual playing has gone. If I were going to play rock I would have put more time into it years ago. Anyway, I've been using the Mustang with my acoustic to add effects. That has been good but a couple of days ago I used my acoustic amp. It's a 30W drive with reverb and a mic input. The first chord I strumed with no reverb almost blew me away. It sounded 10 times better with no effects than the Mustang does with no effects. I see how much difference the proper amp/guitar match makes. I may need to get an effects pedal for my acoustic.

Another thing about not amplifying my acoustic is I used to very often find myself in places to play and my guitar just wasn't loud enough. So if I get another guitar I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE more volume un-amplified I still think I need a pre-amp. I don't want a $1000 guitar to be limited in locations I will play it.

I would stick with a dread if you want that nice booming sound unamplified. There are so many choices out there. In the price range you are looking should be a fun search. If you happen to see an Alvarez Masterworks, try it out and at least let me know how you liked it. You might even find a used Martin D18 at GC. I just had a K&K mini put in my Guild D40 and will be picking it up tomorrow. The tech said he is impressed with how good it sounds. Having said that I would focus on the guitar first and add something like this later for plugging in.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[Masayoshi]

The Martin DRSGT is a Spruce/Sapele acoustic-electric at $1000. Sounds pretty good, and is the cheapest all solid-wood acoustic-electric that Martin puts out (I think):
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Martin/R...87207871931.gc


It doesn't have a pickup, but I was very impressed by the Martin D15M, an all-mahogany beast with fantastic projection (this thing is LOUD). It's at the high end of your range, but it sounds great.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...coustic-guitar


You may also want to try out the Seagull Maritime SWS guitars, which are nice solid-wood guitars for fairly cheap. The solid Spruce/Mahogany with a pickup can be had for $750 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...-guitar?pfm=sp). I prefer the Spruce/Rosewood version, which will run you a couple hundred more (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...d%20Q1&index=1)


In general, one thing I'd recommend is try everything with the specs you're looking for. Even within the same exact model, one guitar can sound pretty different from another depending on the specific pieces of tonewood used. This also means that a relatively cheap guitar can sound better than a more expensive one, for at least that one copy.

[Twilo123]

Thing is you want to try before you buy so you are limited to the choices you have around you. Maybe you can go try some out and list them here (the ones that appeal to you on tryout). The we can help with some knowledge about the ones you try.

[SFCRetired]

Taylor 214E is the first thing I thought of when I read your price and your wishes. Laminate back and sides but you would never know it.

I prefer a Martin myself, so I would also try a DRSGT that was mentioned, and a Martin DRS2. But they are not electric.

I would look for a used P5NC Takamine, but they aren't as loud as the Taylor or Martin unplugged. But they have a really nice smooth Martinesque sound quality to them. Electronics are stellar. My Pro Tak is the easiest playing guitar I own, other than my Tele of course.

I don't know where you heard about the sustain on an Ovation but it's not true. At least it hasn't been my experience. I love Ovations, but I wouldn't have one as my "good" "best" "go to" guitar. YMMV

You also might look for a used Martin D16. No electronics but for the price you can get one for you can add that pretty easily.

[fazool]

You mentioned several times that your abilities are not good enough to really judge the sound of a guitar. That may be true and it may be temporary. In that case, I strongly suggest you focus on something that is comfortable and easy to play, instead of focusing on something that might sound good.

By having a guitar that is a true pleasure to play, you will play more and, then get better, and develop the sound awareness to then start shopping for a great sounding guitar.

[JackH]

I guess I took my first step in my long search today. To play as many different guitars as I can I'm limiting my search to the one and only music store in the town I live in and a few stores within about an hour or two driving time. I called the local store and explained my plan. He said I was welcome to come in and play what he has whenever I want. I asked what guitars he had and he listed a couple including Seagull guitars. I had never heard of them that I remember. So I am going to check them out but I wanted to ask if anyone has played any Seagull acoustic guitars? They are made in Canada. Their site is http://seagullguitars.com/aboutus.html.

Any thoughts? Thanks guys in advance.

Jack

[Br1ck]

Seagulls have a pretty good rep around here. Great place to start.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by JackH

...I like most types of music but when I play I seem to lean towards stuff I can play and sing by myself more than songs that would require a band more. James Taylor, Gordon Lightfoot, Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel, etc...That's another thing I demand. Extremely low action. I won't get one that is harder to play. That may limit my options regarding sound some but I have to live with that. The action on my Ibanez is pretty low and I use light (.010-.047) gauge strings...I want the target price to be $1000.00. Realistically that means $500-$1300...

Check this one out - right at your target price:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/214eDLX

BTW, if your guitar is built/set up correctly you don't need to go that light in the string department - you're losing a lot of tone with those 10's, especially on a dreadnaught. FYI Taylors are known for their out-of-the-box playability, and TMK the larger models still ship with 13's; give it a try - you might just be surprised how easily a well-built/well-set-up instrument can play, and how much tone you've been missing...

[Goat Mick]

If you're going into the $1k range I would encourage you to go with Martin or Taylor. They're going to hold their value much better if you ever want to sell in the future. For the money, this Martin is a great value. American made and comes with a hard shell case.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Martin/C...stic-Guitar.gc

[JackH]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Check this one out - right at your target price:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/214eDLX

BTW, if your guitar is built/set up correctly you don't need to go that light in the string department - you're losing a lot of tone with those 10's, especially on a dreadnaught. FYI Taylors are known for their out-of-the-box playability, and TMK the larger models still ship with 13's; give it a try - you might just be surprised how easily a well-built/well-set-up instrument can play, and how much tone you've been missing...

I need to know more about this before I buy another guitar. Or maybe I should have mine looked at by a guitar tech. I have always wanted what I've heard the heavier strings provide but any time I've even gone up in size to an 11 on the 1st string it made it harder for me to play. Enough harder for me to take them off in a day or two. I've tried this on more than one guitar over the years. Never had the set-up checked though. Now I have given up on heavier strings. I wanted to lower the action on my guitar about a month ago so I removed the saddle and found 3 shims under it. That lowered the action a lot and I was happy with that. But then I could barely hear the two trebel strings when amplified and playing a song along with my computer. Playing by myself it didn't sound that noticable. I asked about this on this forum I think as well as made a few phone calls. The idea was the saddle was not flat. So I took it out and it was far from flat. Laying it on a metal straight edge there was a very tiny space on the bottom where the 4th and 5th strings would be. But under the 1st and 2nd strings there was a much wider gap. I checked and saddles aren't very expensive so I figured I could buy another one if I screwed mine up. Also I'd get a pro to get it set up. At this point I almost couldn't use the guitar anyway. Funny I hadn't noticed this until after I removed the shims I thought. Anyway, I sanded it flat and now it sounds MUCH better. And it's easier to play. The sanding lowered the action to the point I had a tiny bit of fret buzz on the second string when fretting the 3rd fret. The frets in that area do have little grooves under the strings. Using the truss rod I reduced the (back bow I think it is) letting the neck bend forward. Just a tiny tweak on the rod and now there isn't any buzz anywhere. That's all I know to tell you about how it is set up or the action. It is quite a bit easier to play now than ever before. But it's not as low as the action I have on a Fender Squire I recently bought used. I've always figured this was the nature of acoustics vs electrics.

Jack

[Steve DeRosa]

You've made all the right moves so far, Jack, but unless you've got the hands-on experience there are some things that are best left to a pro - fret leveling, nut regrooving, intonation adjustment at the saddle, just to name a few. Another little-known problem area among relatively new players is neck set angle - the fitment of the neck into the body joint - and the profound effect this can have on the tone and playability of an instrument; unfortunately, this is the Achilles' heel of many inexpensive Pac-Rim guitars such as your Ibanez and, given the prevailing construction methods and comparative expense of a pro neck-set job (don't try this one at home), it's not a cost-effective option. In a nutshell, with some exceptions (I've never played a bad Godin product, and the higher-end Yamaha/Alvarez-Yairi/Takamine instruments have generally good QC) you get what you pay for; good thing about the Taylor I suggested its that it's a bolt-on neck, making a reset under warranty a relatively easy - and free - job for an authorized tech (had this done recently on my 320e baritone - where I don't have the option of lighter strings - and the difference is like night and day). Finally, although there are significant differences in the action potential between acoustics and electrics as a whole, Taylor has long prided itself on having "the playability of a fine electric" (their former ad slogan); speaking as one who plays both regularly (and owns four Taylors, including a Custom Solidbody electric), there's no reason you can't come real close with one of their acoustics - and with medium-gauge strings to boot...

Hope this helps...

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Check this one out - right at your target price:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/214eDLX

BTW, if your guitar is built/set up correctly you don't need to go that light in the string department - you're losing a lot of tone with those 10's, especially on a dreadnaught. FYI Taylors are known for their out-of-the-box playability, and TMK the larger models still ship with 13's; give it a try - you might just be surprised how easily a well-built/well-set-up instrument can play, and how much tone you've been missing...

Steve is right. I am a relative newbie at just 4 years playing seriously. Early on, I put extra lights on everything to make them easier and less painful to play. After having a proper setup done I went up two gauges in strings and it was like night and day.

Super light strings like 10's do not provide enough tension to properly "drive" the top - simple as that. Kinda like putting a a small four cylinder engine into a 60's Lincoln.

Taylor's do come set up well out of the box typically - much better than most other brands. I vote you play as many as possible of all brands and see what jumps out at you. FWIW, Takamine is a brand that is largely built on durability and the great sound and performance of their electronics.

BTW - There is a whole world of different guitar sizes: 0, 00, 000 and OM, GA, GS, Dreads and more. Comfort, tone and playability should all be considered.