treating a room for recording

[pjbelsch]

Hi,
I have a finished basement in my new house and I bought some entry level hexagon sound tiles to help deaden the sound. The room is all sheetrock and the floor is a laminate plank(why they put that in the basement ill never know) regardless, I am stuck with the floor for now and have an area rug. the room is 10x22 roughly. What would be the best way to treat this room I know I want to eliminate reflections, how do I determine where the reflections are? I plan on putting some on the ceiling to cut down on sound coming up the stairs so I dont both the wife and kids.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[KevWind]

There is a ton of info online and you can also search many threads here on AGF
That said in nutshell there are two situations where room reflections come into play Recording (also called "tracking")
And Mixing the diagram below shows a mixing location,,,, But for recording I would still set up the room the same way and just experiment with recording position

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by pjbelsch

how do I determine where the reflections are?

This video shows the easiest way to find the first reflection points. You'll have two on either side of you.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by jim1960

This video shows the easiest way to find the first reflection points. You'll have two on either side of you.

What a cool trick using mirrors, Love it. Thanks for posting.

[keith.rogers]

Well, treating for *recording* can be a bit different than, say, treating for *mixing* at a desk with studio monitors. The reality for most of us is that the same room serves both purposes, so many (most?) home recorders pick one or the other to prioritize, and that depends on the size of your space, what you're recording, and how you're mixing.

You're also talking about treatment that reduces out-going sound (i.e., keeping it in the basement), and that is an *entirely* different topic. Short answer is that it is hard to do, typically expensive, and sometimes impossible, given the construction. In your case, keeping sound from going upstairs means keeping it from getting to any surface that connects to the upstairs, because once that bass guitar wave goes through the suspended ceiling and hits the subfloor, you've got a big ol' passive radiator bathing those folks in low frequency vibrations. . The short answer there is you need mass to absorb those sounds, and disconnected mass, if possible.

The replies given about identifying reflection points for mixing are correct; but, for recording, you're more interested in the reflections that come between the audio source and the microphone. Your space is bigger than some (like me!) have, but it's still rectangular, so standing waves between parallel surfaces are your biggest problems, because it's not big enough to prevent them from still having pretty good energy when they do reach the mic. A mix of good absorption (not foam) and diffusion, up to your budget breaking limit, is the best place to start. You can employ measuring tools and the like, but the approach I use is to stop that stuff as much as possible, for a good, dry recording, and then add the "space" with reverb plug-ins.

Good luck, and sorry for the small book, here.

[jim1960]

Keith makes some good points.

I'd give up on the idea of shielding the upstairs from the music coming from downstairs. Soundproofing is a very expensive endeavor which, in your situation, would require that you build a room within your room in such a way that it is decoupled from the rest of the house.

The layout Kev provided is a very good starting point and will set your room up pretty well for mixing (although I'd also add a three-panel cloud of 2" roxul above where you sit). For the recording side of things, some portable traps can create a space within a space that will function well for recording. Products like these can accomplish that.

Backwall diffusion can also be accomplished with bookcases filled with books of varying sizes randomly placed.

[rick-slo]

Recording what? Requirements vary depending. Listening back when tweaking a recording with what? Generally as has been stated panel placement near as many reflection points (corners of the room). After that you can add more (side walls, ceiling).

[pjbelsch]

Thanks everyone for the comments!

So I am more focused on the recording than the mixing personally. I am recording just acoustic guitar and vocals, they are very important to me in sounding good. I am thinking I will do some panels where the wall is in front of me when I record and behind me. Then I may put some treatment on the door itself to the basement and the ceiling which is sheetrock so it is pretty dense already.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by pjbelsch

Thanks everyone for the comments!

So I am more focused on the recording than the mixing personally. I am recording just acoustic guitar and vocals, they are very important to me in sounding good. I am thinking I will do some panels where the wall is in front of me when I record and behind me. Then I may put some treatment on the door itself to the basement and the ceiling which is sheetrock so it is pretty dense already.

Even some basic adhesive, foam insulation on the frame and sweep at the bottom of the door can make a noticeable difference, but putting in a solid core door or adding a layer of drywall would be the next step, if you don't go a double-door route, like having one both bottom and top of stairs (assuming a closed staircase).

I'd definitely start with some good, moveable panels, probably 4 of them, to create Vs back and front, and consider some clouds overhead, if possible, where you'd be recording, if you're not going to mount panels on the walls.

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by pjbelsch

Thanks everyone for the comments!

So I am more focused on the recording than the mixing personally.

Understood. But you can't know that your recordings are okay if you can't hear them played back properly. Meaning on speakers, through air, not with headphones. So your one-room space has to be a good playback environment, as well as an acceptable space to record in.

It's doubly important in a singe-room setup, because any glaring acoustic problems in the recording will be masked by the fact that you're playing it back in the same space, with the same acoustic problems.

A silly example -- if you have crickets in your basement, you won't think you have crickets in your recordings because the live crickets will sound just like the recorded ones.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Understood. But you can't know that your recordings are okay if you can't hear them played back properly. Meaning on speakers, through air, not with headphones. So your one-room space has to be a good playback environment, as well as an acceptable space to record in.

It's doubly important in a singe-room setup, because any glaring acoustic problems in the recording will be masked by the fact that you're playing it back in the same space, with the same acoustic problems.

A silly example -- if you have crickets in your basement, you won't think you have crickets in your recordings because the live crickets will sound just like the recorded ones.

Just have a good set of headphones. I think headphones are fine for checking on and tweaking recordings of solo guitar or guitar and voice. Better than iffy monitors in an room with iffy acoustics. Probably more listening to music on headphones and earbuds these days than speakers.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Understood. But you can't know that your recordings are okay if you can't hear them played back properly. Meaning on speakers, through air, not with headphones. So your one-room space has to be a good playback environment, as well as an acceptable space to record in.

It's doubly important in a singe-room setup, because any glaring acoustic problems in the recording will be masked by the fact that you're playing it back in the same space, with the same acoustic problems.

A silly example -- if you have crickets in your basement, you won't think you have crickets in your recordings because the live crickets will sound just like the recorded ones.

Very good point!

A good set of closed-back headphones can help rule out, or in, crickets (and meowing cats, it turns out). I always include listening with my DT-770s, even though I have monitor speakers, for that final pass through in RX 8...

[KevWind]

In my opinion in a one room situation the focus should be on mixing/playback 1/2 of the equation

Because in a muti-room pro recording studio,,, you can record a decent take in control room (which I have done with just acoustic guitar and vocal ) ,, but you do not mix in a live room ( I could be mistaken but , I have not seen or heard of that, being done ,,,,, or at the most would be highly unusual ) .............................

[alohachris]

Aloha pjbelsch, Some useful 'treatment' links:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

https://gearspace.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/studio.php


Here's "sound" evidence that you need to treat your space:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/1..._bare_room.mp3 - Recording in Untreated Garage Sound

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/F...3_18inches.mp3 - Recording in Same Garage 75% Treated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cxcjXQUZJ0 - Same Garage Studio Completed Treatment - Recent recording

If you DIY broadband absorbers, use 1-2 boxes of (12) 2" x 2'x4' Owens-Corning OC 703 rigid fiberglass (use gloves & mask). Double it up (use Loctite 300 spray adhesive) into 4"x2'x4' (a minimum of 4" thick not less or it won't work!) self-standing, portable panels per Fran's video & cover it w/ nice porous fabric such as white burlap (use hotmelt glue) - all tools are available cheaply at Walmart. REMEMBER - OC 703 is what most pro studio's use globally, not Rockwool or Roxul.

PM me if you have any questions on your Room Treatment quest, PJ.

Over several decades, Proper Room Treatment made the biggest difference in my recordings over any other factor. THEN, I could finally get creative with consistent results as I moved up the gear chain.

I began with 9 DIY broadband absorber panels to treat (around & above) my tracking area. After a year, 6 more to treat the area around & above my desk. Then after another year, I finally made 6 more panels to treat the four room corners as Bass Traps. 21 panels in all, made over three years. All made a HUGE difference in the clarity, consistency & quality of my recordings, maximixing my gear, separating frequencies.

Start w/ at least four panels - 2 in front of the mic's, two behind you for reflections as a test for your space, & after you meter your room & see where the sweet spot & problems are in your room for tracking (see Winer) you'll know where to place your panels.

You'll make what you need as you learn more. Easy to DIY, BTW & $ave lotsa money. These are portable panels that can easily be moved, stored away or quickly set-up to us the room for other uses. Or you can 'permanently' affix them to walls, corners & ceilings. Then you pay even closer attention to Ethan Winer's "acoustic bible" (above) about how to "permanently" treat a room for best sounding recordings.

Best of Luck, PJ! Treat First! - BEFORE YOU BUY ANY GEAR. You'll clearly hear exactly why! Yes, Room Treatment IS THAT important. Fully Commit to it. Priority #One for recording your music & maximizing any gear or space.

These links will get you there. Your ears will do the rest.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Here's "sound" evidence that you need to treat your space:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/1..._bare_room.mp3 - Recording in Untreated Garage Sound

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/F...3_18inches.mp3 - Recording in Same Garage 75% Treated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cxcjXQUZJ0 - Same Garage Studio Completed Treatment - Recent recording

Hey Chris, glad you like my before-after! it was certainly convincing to me. One minor correction you may find amusing, I'm pretty sure that video was not recorded in my studio. It was recorded in an untreated spare bedroom. It was mixed in the studio tho. Only a few of my really old videos were done in the garage studio, like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu_9OFVsZwM

That might be the only old one I still have up that was done in the studio.

It's just too much hassle to setup video gear in my small studio. Unfortunately, my older stuff that was shot in the studio suffers from the poor quality of both my video gear at the time, and You Tube's mangling which was much worse back then. All my videos since maybe 2010 or so have been shot in a small spare bedroom, including ones like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwwkF2S-3kE

This video of Steve Baughman, however, is recent, right before covid, and was shot in my studio:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHwwYfwfiSQ

and another from the same session:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtEZR9UnirY