Installed my HFN today

[Monsum]

Originally Posted by The Kid!

My tech is putting the Schatten HFN passive in a 1952 J-45 that I just picked up. He's also putting in a bone nut and compensated bone saddle.

I'll be using the Schatten with a Tondexter and Sunnaudio Stage DI, but it will be nice in case I have a plug in and play situation and have to plug straight in.

Have you had a chance to try your new Schatten pickup? So far it seems that people are happy with its sound. What's your experience with it?

[TNO]

Reinstalled the pickup several times today. Les said to try it with the middle foot unattached. Didn't work for me. String to string balance was good but the tone shifted for the worse, as someone else here reported. I tried it with a smaller piece of tape in the middle and that was better but the middle strings were still too hot. Finally tried it with tape on the outside feet and just a BB-size ball of putty on the middle foot.

Success! It even booms a little on the low E (in a good way). String balance is there and it doesn't need any eq. I went with putty in the middle figuring that if the bridge plate wasn't totally flat it would seat better.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by TNO

Reinstalled the pickup several times today. Les said to try it with the middle foot unattached. Didn't work for me. String to string balance was good but the tone shifted for the worse, as someone else here reported. I tried it with a smaller piece of tape in the middle and that was better but the middle strings were still too hot. Finally tried it with tape on the outside feet and just a BB-size ball of putty on the middle foot.

Success! It even booms a little on the low E (in a good way). String balance is there and it doesn't need any eq. I went with putty in the middle figuring that if the bridge plate wasn't totally flat it would seat better.

Good idea! Another trick that we can all keep in the back of our heads. Glad it worked out for you. Now I'm sitting here thinking I wish I thought of that. Nice work!

[TNO]

Making a jig like is commonly used for K&K installs made it easy to get it under the saddle. Eventually I'll figure how to upload a pic here.

[Peter Z]

Originally Posted by TNO

Reinstalled the pickup several times today. Les said to try it with the middle foot unattached. Didn't work for me. String to string balance was good but the tone shifted for the worse, as someone else here reported. I tried it with a smaller piece of tape in the middle and that was better but the middle strings were still too hot. Finally tried it with tape on the outside feet and just a BB-size ball of putty on the middle foot.

Success! It even booms a little on the low E (in a good way). String balance is there and it doesn't need any eq. I went with putty in the middle figuring that if the bridge plate wasn't totally flat it would seat better.

That IS a clever idea.
Can you describe the differencies between tape and putty installation soundwise?
So we can anticipate what to do if bass/mids/highs are too prominent.

[TNO]

Les says there's not much difference in tone or volume between the tape and putty. All putty or all tape didn't work for me. The tiny ball of putty on the middle foot seemed to avoid what he describes as a mechanical phase issue. Works for me!

[GuitarLuva]

Simple and effective...I love it!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by TNO

Les says there's not much difference in tone or volume between the tape and putty. All putty or all tape didn't work for me. The tiny ball of putty on the middle foot seemed to avoid what he describes as a mechanical phase issue. Works for me!

Wow, I am kind of kicking myself for never thinking of this type of jig. That's one major benefit of the putty, it's just enough to hold the HFN to the cardboard. I bet it would work great for the Amulet M as well. The Trance jig is good but this would pretty much take out any guess work.

That's an interesting solution with the tape on the outside feet and the small amount of putty on the center. I wonder though, does this method really fix the low E/weak signal issue or just reduce the mids? I will say that with mine, the middle strings are definitely the loudest but the low E is quite a bit weaker than even the high B & E. I could see this reducing the middle strings but not necessarily fixing the low E. What do I know though? I am definitely trying this method with the HFN and Amulet M.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Out of curiosity, which method of install is he using, tape or putty?

I asked him to use the putty.

[TNO]

Petty1818- It doesn't just reduce the middle strings, the low E is stronger and the plain strings sound fatter also. Les understood that the imbalance was caused by some kind of phase cancelling between the middle and outer feet. With the middle foot uncoupled from the bridge plate string balance was better and the low E had a nice snap to it but it sounded like all the body (low mids) was sucked out and this was across all six strings. With just that little bit of contact in the middle the low E snaps, the middle strings aren't hotter and the plain strings are fatter. I was careful not to press on the middle foot when I installed it, just the outer feet with the tape.

[Peter Z]

TNO, Thank you for sharing your ideas and the perfect installation work!!!
I think Schatten should put this on their Homepage (if you allow it)!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by TNO

Petty1818- It doesn't just reduce the middle strings, the low E is stronger and the plain strings sound fatter also. Les understood that the imbalance was caused by some kind of phase cancelling between the middle and outer feet. With the middle foot uncoupled from the bridge plate string balance was better and the low E had a nice snap to it but it sounded like all the body (low mids) was sucked out and this was across all six strings. With just that little bit of contact in the middle the low E snaps, the middle strings aren't hotter and the plain strings are fatter. I was careful not to press on the middle foot when I installed it, just the outer feet with the tape.

That's very interesting. I come from it from a very simple perspective, if the feet are all attached, the sound should be balanced. I had not even considered a phase issue. If this is a fairly well known issue then Les should 100% put this in the manual. I am going to try this for sure.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

That's very interesting. I come from it from a very simple perspective, if the feet are all attached, the sound should be balanced. I had not even considered a phase issue. If this is a fairly well known issue then Les should 100% put this in the manual. I am going to try this for sure.

I vaguely recall David Enke saying that I might be having a phase issue with a PUTW "Dynamic Duo" system (a PUTW UST wired in parallel with a two element #54 SBT) which I once installed and found less than satisfying. In any event, I've had consistently better luck with using the single strip #27 SBT, with respect to the PUTW SBTs.

There seem to be a great many potential pitfalls associated with using soundboard pickups in general. Then again, the reward is great if you persevere (or get crazy lucky the first time) and get an effective installation.

[TNO]

So far we just have a sample group of one
It will be interesting to hear if it works for you guys as well!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by TNO

So far we just have a sample group of one
It will be interesting to hear if it works for you guys as well!

I am going to give it a try tonight or tomorrow. I will report back with my findings. I am definitely trying the jig set up though!