Installed my HFN today

TNO · #1 01-18-2019, 05:53 PM

Installed a Schatten HFN in my Yamaha FG820 today. Like everyone says, very easy install. Compared to the K&K in my low-end Eastman dread it has about 30% less output but is vastly more natural-sounding. Takes a lot to get it to feed back and even then it doesn't get out of control.

I do have a couple of issues with it though. The low E string is not as loud and the unwound strings sound plastic-y, especially playing up the neck. I tried sliding the pickup over toward the bass side but it made very little difference. This is a putty install.

If anyone has advice on what I might do to get it more balanced I would appreciate it. I'm thinking maybe try it again with the low E side seated firmly and treble side less so.

Vancebo · #2 01-18-2019, 06:03 PM

Is there a glue option? I am always of the opinion that glue will help balance over putty.

Petty1818 · #3 01-18-2019, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Is there a glue option? I am always of the opinion that glue will help balance over putty.

I think one of the main appeals of the HFN is that it doesn’t use glue. I too had the low e string issue but I think placement is key. I find the tape sounds better though. More balanced. My next try will be with the amulet m tape.

GuitarLuva · #4 01-18-2019, 09:51 PM

I tried each method and found the putty was more balanced in my guitar. Each guitar is different though so like Petty said I would give the tape a try and mess around with the placement a bit. I wonder if that's causing your lower output. I've used k&k's before and the output is roughly the same as the new Schatten HFN. Do you have the one with the rosewood base or black ABS?

Petty1818 · #5 01-18-2019, 09:58 PM

Unfortunately, I have been testing mine and the Low E string and even the A string are definitely quieter. I am a bit concerned because the first install with putty had similar results. I would say this is a bit worse. I will have to try another installation.

GuitarLuva · #6 01-18-2019, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Is there a glue option? I am always of the opinion that glue will help balance over putty.

I glued it with loctite 495 before I tried the putty.

GuitarLuva · #7 01-18-2019, 10:06 PM

You could also email Les at [email protected] I'm sure he would be happy to help.

TNO · #8 01-18-2019, 10:56 PM

I re-installed it tonight using the tape. I did a K&K-type install to locate it right under the bridge, but cheated it over a bit to the bass side. The treble strings are less harsh but the low E is still quiet. I does sound better than anything else I've tried.

I kinda wonder if two layers of tape on the bass foot might help it out...

GuitarLuva · #9 01-18-2019, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNO

I re-installed it tonight using the tape. I did a K&K-type install to locate it right under the bridge, but cheated it over a bit to the bass side. The treble strings are less harsh but the low E is still quiet. I does sound better than anything else I've tried.

I kinda wonder if two layers of tape on the bass foot might help it out...

Possibly uneven contact on all 3 legs. I would still consider sending Les an email. He could probably offer some insight or tips and tricks than none of us might know. After all he is the designer.

SpruceTop · #10 01-19-2019, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Possibly uneven contact on all 3 legs. I would still consider sending Les an email. He could probably offer some insight or tips and tricks than none of us might know. After all he is the designer.

If using tape, especially the Trance tape, I suggest my clamping method which would use two lightweight C-Clamps with nylon cauls, ordered from Stewart-MacDonald, to clamp the HFN with light pressure overnight to ensure that all three feet of the HFN make and remain in intimate contact with the adhesive/bridgeplate. I'm almost 100% sure that the Trance tape is strong enough to permanently hold all three HFN feet, especially those of the new, supposedly more flexible ABS HFN base, to the adhesive/bridgeplate interface if applied by using my method. Below are photos of one of my Trance Amulet transducer installations in a Martin HD-28. Please note that it should be possible for two Stew-Mac C-Clamps with nylon cauls to pretty much engage the entire top transducer rail of a Schatten HFN pickup. You would torque the C-Clamp screws to only about one to two lbs-ft of torque (or just use a touchy-feely finger guestimate) which would ensure the HFN's feet are making and maintaining overnight contact with the adhesive/bridgeplate interface but not torqued enough to cause damage to the guitar of piezo element in the HFN. Note the LED lights and mirror used to facilitate installation, and the piece of vertical foam to distribute the weight of clamp onto more of the guitar's top.

Stewart-MacDonald Soundhole C Clamps (I use the 5 inch deep clamps)

Nylon Cauls for Soundhole C Clamps

SpruceTop · #11 01-19-2019, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I think one of the main appeals of the HFN is that it doesn’t use glue. I too had the low e string issue but I think placement is key. I find the tape sounds better though. More balanced. My next try will be with the amulet m tape.

If using tape, especially the Trance tape, I suggest my clamping method which would use two lightweight C-Clamps with nylon cauls, ordered from Stewart-MacDonald, to clamp the HFN with light pressure overnight to ensure that all three feet of the HFN make and remain in intimate contact with the adhesive/bridgeplate. I'm almost 100% sure that the Trance tape is strong enough to permanently hold all three HFN feet, especially those of the new, supposedly more flexible ABS HFN base, to the adhesive/bridgeplate interface if applied by using my method. Below are photos of one of my Trance Amulet transducer installations in a Martin HD-28. Please note that it should be possible for two Stew-Mac C-Clamps with nylon cauls to pretty much engage the entire top transducer rail of a Schatten HFN pickup. You would torque the C-Clamp screws to only about one to two lbs-ft of torque (or just use a touchy-feely finger guestimate) which would ensure the HFN's feet are making and maintaining overnight contact with the adhesive/bridgeplate interface but not torqued enough to cause damage to the guitar of piezo element in the HFN. Note the LED lights and mirror used to facilitate installation, and the piece of vertical foam to distribute the weight of clamp onto more of the guitar's top.

Stewart-MacDonald Soundhole C Clamps (I use the 5 inch deep clamps)

Stewart-MacDonald Nylon Cauls for Soundhole C Clamps (I use the flat-bottom cauls)

Monsum · #12 01-19-2019, 12:08 PM

It looks like the weak low-E string is not an uncommon issue with this pickup.
I had it as well. I emailed Les (technical support) and he advised not to use any tape on the middle pickup feet.
This solved the problem but the sound got much worse. I repositioned the pickup again and it helped to get a right string balance.
I think it's a matter of trial and error positioning until it sounds right, that is why I used the tape for possibly repeated clean installations.

GuitarLuva · #13 01-19-2019, 12:52 PM

These are interesting reports indeed and would drive me crazy. At least I'm happy to report that after using tape, loctite glue and putty I had no string balancing issues.

Petty1818 · #14 01-19-2019, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monsum

It looks like the weak low-E string is not an uncommon issue with this pickup.
I had it as well. I emailed Les (technical support) and he advised not to use any tape on the middle pickup feet.
This solved the problem but the sound got much worse. I repositioned the pickup again and it helped to get a right string balance.
I think it's a matter of trial and error positioning until it sounds right, that is why I used the tape for possibly repeated clean installations.

I am going to take mine out today and see how flat it really is. If it’s indeed flat then I will check my bridge plate. If everything checks out okay, I will try the clamping method. I do also still have the trance clamps so I might try those as well.

GuitarLuva · #15 01-19-2019, 01:05 PM

Actually I just thought of something that I would do if this were me, I would completely remove the pickup, clean up the feet with sandpaper and place it on a surface that I know is 100% flat. If it wasn't I would sand the feet accordingly to make it flat. If it was flat I would mount it in the guitar and with a mirror or camera make sure that all three feet were making even contact and sand according to that. Maybe I was lucky or something but it does seem odd that at least 3 people are reporting the same or similar issue.