Learning songs old school

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Paddy1951

They are those things you scrape off of fish before you fry them.

That's right. Also things you weigh stuff with.

[Dino Silone]

Originally Posted by DaveKell

I don’t think I ever said there are no tabs, just that he demonstrates everything so thoroughly the tabs aren’t really utilized that much i almost have a complex blues tune down so well and have yet to print out the tabs. His tabs are handwritten like the very early Happy Ttaum tabs on Homespun instruction. Great for working on a troublesome passage but not much else. At this rate, by Spring I’ll have a respectable repertoire under the belt. He’what Ive always been searching for!

I’ve never really taken to tabs, either - especially for playing roots/folk/blues sorts of music. A funny outgrowth of the availability of resources like DaddyStovepipe and others on YouTube has been that people are learning to play music in these genres, e.g. country blues, note-for-note ... almost like learning Bach Sonatas or something.

The funny thing is that the musicians who originally made this music generally didn’t play the same song the same exact way twice in a row - they often even changed the words. But what made each song different from other similar songs, (when it was different - sometimes there really weren’t a lot of differences), was something like a dominating lick, or a rhythmic pattern, or some variation on a standard chord pattern. Sometimes the only real difference was in the lyrics.

I find that watching Daddystovepipe and others on YouTube is really useful for finding those licks or “special feel” elements that (1) give you the bag of tricks you need to play something in the style of Mississippi John Hurt, or Lightnin’ Hopkins, or <insert name of artist here>, so you can then use them for other stuff, and (2) give you the sense (maybe by averaging over the different interpretations you find), of what elements make THIS song different from other 12-bar blues or whatever.

To me, this is really what learning “old style” is about - not about learning to play something note for note, but about learning what’s in the bag of tricks, learning what makes one song special and different from other songs, and learning to apply those tricks to your playing and improvising in general.

[DaveKell]

Originally Posted by reeve21

So if Daddy has a way to learn tunes without tab I'd be really interested in hearing your feedback as you get into his materials, especially if his method is something more than "watch my hands and copy me" --which has never worked for me-- thus my reliance on tab.

Good luck with it!

To be sure, he provided tabs for everything. In his videos however, he slows it down phrase by phrase and demos it a few times. I’m learning faster than I ever have before how to play the songs this way. I’ve only used the tab once to nail an intricate lick. Strangely enough, in the song pack I ordered it advertised 3 songs for $14 (converted from Euros). What I received was 9 songs with a bonus free one. He also answers questions within 24 hours since he’s in Holland and I’m in Texas. I’m incredibly, very incredibly impressed so far.

[DaveKell]

Originally Posted by Dino Silone

The funny thing is that the musicians who originally made this music generally didn’t play the same song the same exact way twice in a row - they often even changed the words. But what made each song different from other similar songs, (when it was different - sometimes there really weren’t a lot of differences), was something like a dominating lick, or a rhythmic pattern, or some variation on a standard chord pattern. Sometimes the only real difference was in the lyrics.

I find that watching Daddystovepipe and others on YouTube is really useful for finding those licks or “special feel” elements that (1) give you the bag of tricks you need to play something in the style of Mississippi John Hurt, or Lightnin’ Hopkins, or <insert name of artist here>, so you can then use them for other stuff, and (2) give you the sense (maybe by averaging over the different interpretations you find), of what elements make THIS song different from other 12-bar blues or whatever.

To me, this is really what learning “old style” is about - not about learning to play something note for note, but about learning what’s in the bag of tricks, learning what makes one song special and different from other songs, and learning to apply those tricks to your playing and improvising in general.

On the first song I’m learning I was hung up on a certain lick. In the video he played it differently twice in a row which was why I hadvto refer to the tabs. When I went back to the video his first comment was “I rarely play it the same way twice”. The essential nuance of the lick was the same though, illustrating your points you made.

[DaveKell]

Originally Posted by Pitar

I've never used a tab. I taught myself the fretboard by ear and to do that my hands had to participate. it all just kind of worked itself out naturally.

I have a good friend who has a big stack of every lp Chet Atkins ever recorded. In the decades before the internet with YouTube videos and tabs, he literally taught himself every song on every lp by ear. Today my friend is one of the finest fingerstyle players in Texas. He’s in demand for recording sessions and even sat in for a group playing at Dollywood with no rehearsal when their guitarist got sick before a show. Their tour had them in Texas and their guitarist had to suffer the indignity of being replaced by my friend for their show. Incidentally, he recently mastered the pedal steel in less than 6 months. Some guys got all the luck with the brain power to learn instruments!

[pf400]

I think that a combination of learning scales, copying from videos, using tab books, going through books on theory, just jamming, and learning from instructors and friends will get you where you want to go. One book, years ago, taught me basic minor pentatonic scale plus a bunch of common licks and riffs. It was the best thing I ever went through. Taking a 6 week night class in fingerpicking was also lifechanging. Now when I teach guitar I start teaching specific tunes, the chromatic, major, and pentatonic scales right off the bat. An hour long class will have about 20 minutes of theory, and all of my students (about 20 so far, 5 currently) love that approach. You can get into the major scale formula (wwhwwwh), formation of a chord, Nashville Numbering System, even the staff, all in one lesson, and the student goes home with a gigbag full of new info to ponder and enjoy.

[DaveKell]

I thought I’d finally nailed this first tune after learning from 3 videos. THEN I discover by scrolling a little farther I have 4 more to go! I watched the remaining videos and was like “wow I’ve got every lick and phrase of every blues tune I’ve ever heard to learn before I’ve got this song mastered “. I’ve remembered advice given me by country artist Roger Miller ‘s guitarist whom my dad brought home from a bar one night early in their career to sleep at our house, saving him a hotel bill. He played my single pickup Gibson melody maker and blew me away. I said I wish I could play like that and he said “kid you need to play your guitar 6 hours everyday of your life to do what I am”. For awhile my mom tired of me asking every 15 minutes how much longer I had left to go to 6. I never stayed with the advice which is why at age 65 I’m just now learning the music I’ve wanted to play my entire life. Still don’t hit the 6 but I’m putting in the most intense effort of my life. My work career has ended and this part of my childhood has come into focus again. Life is great.