alternate tuning.. out of my wheel house

[Scuzzo]

ok so, goofing around with alternate tuning. seem really fun but a bit too much noodle i guess.. dont have a fine grasp of it so i end up just pairing strings and listening to the sympathetic drone of the other open strings but for musical ideas.. it all starts to sound similar.. when writing alternate tuning ideas... what do you cats do... do you go by chord shapes or the name of the chord or is just what ever sounds cool?

[TBman]

You should learn a few covers in different tunings first.

Al Petteway is great guitarist that plays in DADGAD often. There are plenty of others too. Al plays blues with a celtic twist.

Here's a play list of his Mountain Guitar CD, all in DADGAD I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...nIHDqYN2RfR90k

The tabs for many of the above tunes are available on his website:

https://www.alandamy.com/

Here's him playing another of his famous tunes..

[Andyrondack]

I just go by the intervals, if I play a phrase in standard I know what the notes are and more importantly I know what intervals of the scale I'm playing along with the numbers of the chords which the melody is harmonised against.
So for my alternate tuning I just need to transfer the same intervals over, if it's a different key makes no difference, the intervals remain the same.
That makes it relatively straightforward to play any tune I know in any key and any tuning, though I generally use just one alternative to standard.

In the early days of messing with other tunings I relied more on converting by ear but that was too much of a messy process because guessing I needed to play a 3rd next I would keep reaching for where it used to be in standard so that drove me nuts for while.
That's why I just stick to one alternate tuning which is versatile for a few different keys because I need to be familiar with a tuning to make life easy.
This is essentially why I think the CAGED system ultimately inhibits learning because intervals are just not relevant to that system, intervals need to be learned as an add on and most players never get there.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Scuzzo

ok so, goofing around with alternate tuning. seem really fun but a bit too much noodle i guess.. dont have a fine grasp of it so i end up just pairing strings and listening to the sympathetic drone of the other open strings but for musical ideas.. it all starts to sound similar.. when writing alternate tuning ideas... what do you cats do... do you go by chord shapes or the name of the chord or is just what ever sounds cool?

This is the standard problem when starting with alternate tunings - you can easily end up noodling with the tuning and everything sounds the same - you often "write" a new tune that sounds just like everyone else's song in that tuning!

For me, there are multiple solutions. But I rely heavily on intervals - being able to find 3rds, 6ths, 10ths as harmonized scales. I also find at least the basic chords (I-IV-V) in a key or two. Then I try to find something "interesting" about the tuning I can use - this is the dangerous part as you can get sucked into letting the tuning drive things and end up sounding like everyone else, but it is part of the reason to use a tuning.

The other big thing I tend to do is start by arranging an existing tune, not trying to compose something myself. That forces me to find ways to play specific things in the tuning. I can't just listen to a bunch of ringing strings, and call that a song, I have to be able to play a set melody with appropriate harmony. Traditional tunes are good, pop tunes are good, whatever you like. Beatle tunes are good - they often have somewhat unusual chord progressions and even some unusual chords, so figuring out how to play those is a great way to learn your way around a tuning and force it to bend to your will, rather than the other way around.

Incidentally, I do teach a course on this topic on Peghead Nation (link in my signature), where I try to demonstrate my approach while teaching lots of songs in many different tunings.

[Sev112]

I do like alternate tunings, but even all the written music is “same”y i- all DADGAD stuff sounds like an Irish jig/reel. Even Pierre B’s stuff is similar.

Any suggestions for solo pieces in alternate tunings which sound “modern”?

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Sev112

I do like alternate tunings, but even all the written music is “same”y i- all DADGAD stuff sounds like an Irish jig/reel. Even Pierre B’s stuff is similar.

Any suggestions for solo pieces in alternate tunings which sound “modern”?

It's not my regular alternate tuning but improvising blues in CGDGCD is a lot of fun, in the key of C it's a lot easier than standard and sounds impressive.
Ok I know blues isn't 'modern' but once you get the hang of it you might try some of the more jazzy chord substitutions though it's not something I have tried yet.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Sev112

I do like alternate tunings, but even all the written music is “same”y i- all DADGAD stuff sounds like an Irish jig/reel. Even Pierre B’s stuff is similar.

Any suggestions for solo pieces in alternate tunings which sound “modern”?

I'm not sure what you mean by "modern". You mean like some of the CandyRat stuff? That tends to be very "alternate tuning" sounding, and not at all like jigs and reels. Or do you mean just not trad tunes?

There's no reason DADGAD has to sound Irish. Here's a few examples, two from me, and another from Teja Gerken, all three in DADGAD. None of these sound at all Irish to me, at least:

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Sev112

all DADGAD stuff sounds like an Irish jig/reel.

Really? Try these:
1. The man who invented DADGAD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWhrx1X5lHo

2. One of his disciples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I28Ejp1GaKY
(yes, OK, there is an Irish jig bit in the middle.... (I guess they couldn't resist... )

3. Here's a non-Irish-flavoured example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCUR6H7tSI0

Here's Dick Gaughan applying a Scots feel to it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFO2ldO3Ga0

Originally Posted by Sev112

Any suggestions for solo pieces in alternate tunings which sound “modern”?

Depends what you mean by "modern".

Here's John Martyn in CFCCGD:



Mind you that does date from the 1970s...

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Scuzzo

ok so, goofing around with alternate tuning. seem really fun but a bit too much noodle i guess.. dont have a fine grasp of it so i end up just pairing strings and listening to the sympathetic drone of the other open strings but for musical ideas.. it all starts to sound similar.. when writing alternate tuning ideas... what do you cats do... do you go by chord shapes or the name of the chord or is just what ever sounds cool?

I've been playing and composing open tunings since 1972 or so. Talk is cheap so I'll let you see some of what I do, but do keep in mind that I don't use open-tunings for their 'modal sound'. If you didn't see me playing you would not know I'm using an open tuning. First 2 are in open G, and the 3rd & 4th are in open D.









Best,
Howard Emerson

[Gitfiddlemann]

Howard, it's always nice to listen to your music, but to watch you play it is a special treat.
To the OP. How's this for modern non Irish jiggy alternate tunings (although, it's going on 40 years now. GASP.)

[aK_bAsh7]

Originally Posted by Scuzzo

ok so, goofing around with alternate tuning. seem really fun but a bit too much noodle i guess.. dont have a fine grasp of it so i end up just pairing strings and listening to the sympathetic drone of the other open strings but for musical ideas.. it all starts to sound similar.. when writing alternate tuning ideas... what do you cats do... do you go by chord shapes or the name of the chord or is just what ever sounds cool?

First of all, I suggest you try "straight" open D to begin with (D A D F# A D). In my opinion, it's easier to begin with a major 3rd rather than that sus4. Others will no doubt disagree. At any rate, this tuning has been used a lot by Ry Cooder and is quite accessible. There are chord charts online but if you know your intervals, it's easy enough to figure out many different flavors of chords in this tuning.

[rick-slo]

Composing strategy is the same in most any tuning. Try to avoid mysticising it.
Sure there are different chords shapes as to what is pratical but you can sound
those out. Perhaps a little more by ear than by prior rote - maybe a good thing.

[aK_bAsh7]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Composing strategy is the same in most any tuning. Try to avoid mysticising it.
Sure there are different chords shapes as to what is pratical but you can sound
those out. Perhaps a little more by ear than by prior rote - maybe a good thing.

I make charts of the fingerboard that show all possible voicings for any given chord type in any given key. This works, needless to say, for any tuning. For example, to make it easy, let's pick D major in Open D. Identify (diagram) every D, F# and A note with guitar tuned D A D F# A D. This will generate all potential voicings.

Such an approach will seem like too much work to many players but I like to play all over the neck in any key and prefer to be aware of all my options.

[aK_bAsh7]

I'd agree that it's not difficult to work out major, minor triads, sus chords, Maj 7ths and simple dom. 7ths by ear in an unfamiliar tuning. However, for more complex chords and to ensure I'm not missing any voicings, I make charts of the fingerboard that show all possible voicings for any given chord type in any given key. This works, needless to say, for any tuning.

Such an approach may seem too laborious many players and it does require very basic theory knowledge but for me, the benefits make it a no-brainer as I play all over the neck and like to have all possible options at my fingertips.

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by aK_bAsh7

I make charts of the fingerboard that show all possible voicings for any given chord type in any given key. This works, needless to say, for any tuning. For example, to make it easy, let's pick D major in Open D. Identify (diagram) every D, F# and G note with guitar tuned D A D F# A D. This will generate all potential voicings.

Such an approach will seem like too much work to many players but I like to play all over the neck in any key and prefer to be aware of all my options.

If you are looking for D major chords why are adding G notes to your chord diagrams?