column speaker vs powered speakers - trying to save my hearing

[computerman]

I am trying to decide between getting a column speaker (probably the Evolve 30M/50M) vs powered speakers and mixers. One major consideration I realised I should ask is- which set up is better in terms of keeping the volume to a minimum for the performer? I have a deep voice so I expect I'll benefit from some decent bass carrying through to the audience but I mostly don't like to blast them with sound... I like them to still be able to hold a conversation if they wish. My hearing is also a bit sensitive. I've tried earplugs (yes even the pricey ones) but I just prefer to play without them and turn the volume down a tad
Very occasionally we'll have more of a Rock n Roll kinda gig and we'll turn it up pretty loud, but even then I try to keep the volume down just a bit.

Some threads I've read seem to suggest that with the column speaker set up behind you, you generally save your hearing as you simply don't need to crank them anywhere near as loud to reach your audience, especially if your audience is spread all around the place (and they often are in the gigs I do) rather than directly out in front.

On one hand with powered speakers...I guess you can position the main(s) out in front of you and have a monitor pointing back at you at a much lower volume. My lay-man brain has me thinking that perhaps this will result in less stress on your hearing compared to having a column speaker behind you....???

If I got an Evolve I would really want to set it up behind me rather than out front, since the main reason I would buy one is for simplicity (i.e. no monitor).

So I'm a bit confused. Can anyone share their experience?

[Peter Z]

A ‘line array’ - usually single speakers assembled to a column of 4 or more meters - WITH a subwoofer array can push the sound forwards and reduce the level on the rear side.

A ‘column speaker’ like the evolve just has a wider pattern on the high end. It otherwise works more or less like a traditional speaker. The main advantage is the woofer on the floor, what adds a few decibels. I think, thats the cause of their success.

You can put both type of speakers to the front or the back of the stage. I did it and saw others do that as well. The setup is totally depending on the required sound pressure level, the availability of monitor speakers, the type of music, the instruments, and so on.

I should mention, that companies like to use the expression ’line array’ for their column speakers. They shouldn’t. Their column speakers are really nice, but no line arrays.

[computerman]

Thanks Peter Z, I have edited the post so I've got the correct terminology.

To provide you with a little more information - I would mainly be using this setup for solo gigs (me singing a lot of country music and playing my guitar, along with tapping my cigar-box foot drum). Sometimes I have a second singer and occasionally someone on the bass guitar when I do more of a Rock n Roll sort of night.

Playing indoor and outdoor venues, often restaurants and beer gardens/patios. Up to about 150 people.

[YamahaGuy]

A powered speaker throws sound. With the 'stick systems' -- especially Bose -- the sound is dispersed evenly: that is to say, 90 feet away, the sound is practically the same as it is 2 feet away from the speaker system. With powered speakers, that is not the case. For those 90 feet away to hear, the speaker system must be turned up rather loud. That's my experience, and I own many powered speakers and several stick systems. While the Bose L1C I once owned did the best job of sending out a balanced volume across the listening field, it sounded like a less expensive bookshelf system when pushed hard to get really loud.

[Chriscom]

It's a topic where "it depends" is key, though sticks are generally easier on the ears for the performer in identical scenarios. In other words--

Most folks here report sticks sitting behind them are less punishing in terms of volume for the performer, compared to traditional PAs if placed in the same spot--which also usually generate feedback more quickly and at lower volumes back there.

But at really loud volumes, I see acts push the sticks out front just like traditional PAs (often called "point source" PAs), and use monitors.

And if you're in a tight enclosed space and jammed right up against your stick, you may notice more harshness than when you're several feet away. They need a little room for that more pleasant immersion. And don't get me wrong, sticks can generate feedback too.

I own and love my 30m, and have placed it behind me successfully. For louder volumes I've placed it at my left or right, because I didn't want to worry about my ears or feedback. I also have a couple Bose systems, and found my L1 M2 more pleasant--maybe because of wider dispersion?--but far more complicated to set up and the 30m sound is quite good. And I've only begun to tweak it.

[Methos1979]

A column speaker system behind you is still going to be pretty loud, especially the EV30/50M. As long as you can get it to the left or right of (and behind) you AND at least 2-3 (preferably 3) meters then it's not that bad. The Bose Pro column systems will be a little better due to their physically articulated tower speakers vs. the EV30/50M soundwave directed guides. The Bose tend to be the absolute best at throwing sound far and especially wide at lower volumes. But you'll still need to have it off to the side and behind you.

We use the EV30M and love it. But placement is key and that can be difficult depending on the venue/room you're performing in. A few times I have not had the space to get it far enough away from me and the sound level was tough on me to the point where I had to move it up even with or a little in front of me. One good thing about the column speaker vs. the powered speaker is that you can hear it better when it's even or a little out front whereas the powered speaker out front is very dull and muffled and really needs a monitor.

I'm like you, I have very sensitive ears so loud, shrill highs pierce me right to my brain. Since you are a solo singer/player, I would look into the Bose Pro systems. I went with the EV30M over the Bose because of the built in mixer and great number of inputs. Since we are a duo, we needed more inputs and I much prefer the greater control of the onboard mixer. With the Bose I would have had to purchase one of their expensive T4 or T8 add-ons which made the final price significantly higher than the EV30M.

There are many things I like about the Bose Pro system - including their sound - but the EV30M was clear winner for me for our needs.

[Stringmaster]

I think it depends on the venues and volume you play at. For my solo shows I use my 50m, unless there is a “house” system. I usually play smaller venues, both indoors and outdoors—wineries, breweries, restaurants, etc. I almost always place the unit a few feet to my side, and slightly in front of me. I can hear it fine, and it’s easy on my ears (and doesn’t punish the audience sitting up front). I don’t need a separate monitor. After years of playing with a more traditional PA, it did take some “retraining” of my ears to what I’m hearing—I guess in simple terms to me the Evolve sounds “thinner” placed where it is, as I’m primarily getting the side throw from the column, whereas the audience will experience a much fuller sound. I’ve also used it to support 2-3 musicians/singers when I host an open mic, and my 4-piece band in a pinch. A huge advantage is the ease of setup—literally under 5 minutes! And a small footprint and not a bunch of cables!
The only downside for me is that 50m isn’t very compatible for use with a large diaphragm condenser mic due to the throw, etc. I had envisioned using my Ear Trumpet Labs mic at times, but it’s not worth the hassle.

[wweiss]

If saving your hearing is the #1 consideration, which it should be! the 180 degree throw of the Bose Pro Line will make a noticeable difference compared to the EV30/50. I have both a Bose Pro32 and the EV30. EV has a more typical PA ultra clear high end lacking some mids vs Bose lacking some high end clarity but is know for that smooth midrange that is less fatiguing.

[Chipotle]

I think it's how you use the gear, rather than the exact gear itself. As others have said, you can put a powered speaker "high and behind" just like a column. You just need to have take care to position things so you are getting the best situation. Typically, that might mean getting the speaker up high enough on a stand, and putting yourself and the mic off-axis to the speaker somewhat. That will take you out of the loudest, center throw of a powered speaker that doesn't have as much spread.

If you need to push more volume, you should get your main speakers out in front of you, regardless of which type you're using, and control the volume you are hearing with a monitor speaker.

[jseth]

I can't speak to the EV units, but I've heard a lot of the ;ess-expensive "tower" speaker units, and none of them come close to what my Bose L1 Model II can do...

I position the tower and sub off my left shoulder (away from the body of the guitar!) and ~8-15' behind me on the diagonal...

When I turn up the PA to where I can hear myself clearly, that's what volume the audience is hearing... across a 180 degree swath and out to 50+ feet from the stage. No kidding; the audience hears the music as I hear it on stage! No dropout or hotspots whatsoever...

Folks at a table right in front of me can have a conversation (hopefully not TOO loud!) without straining to hear, but people at 50' can hear perfectly. It really is the most remarkable PA I've used in over 50 years of performing in small - medium venues.

And it sounds terrific - a friend/performer who has REALLY good ears likened the sound to wearing headphones in a studio... I've not experienced any "ear fatigue" from my Bose unit.

I'd suggest the Bose Pro line, probably the 16... 16 little speakers, each pointing in a slightly different direction, while the subwoofer is omni-directional. As a solo performer (guitar and voice), I get all the bass I want from it; remember, the sound I hear is what the audience hears... so I don't have to jack up the bass to be sure they hear it! I don't have to change ANYTHING in what I'm hearing on stage; I just eq it to where I like it, and trust that everyone is hearing the same thing.

I'm not a Bose fan-boy, but their L1 series units are absolutely superb for what I do.

One caveat: it takes a lot of getting used to this new way of reproducing my music at volume... I frequently catch myself going back to all my years of live sound application, then realize that "Oh, I don't have to do that with this PA". So long as I can hear the unit clearly, it doesn't matter where it's pointed - EVERYONE in that dispersion cone of 180 degrees is hearing exactly what I'm doing!

[meb]

I usually use my Bose Pro8 or L1m2, and they are very easy on the ears.
I used a Pro8 setup like jseth described a few nights ago, and it was great.

I also have a K8.2, and find myself
fighting ear fatigue when it is placed behind me..paricularly indoors. Thus,
i mostly use the K8.2 outdoors. I am a sitter and mostly use a mixer.
with either. I don't fret so much about the number of inputs.
Both sound wonderful; just different tools.

[computerman]

Thanks guys this is really helpful.

Now I'm a little torn. It sounds like the Bose would suit me down to the ground, but it sure would be great to have the extra inputs like the Evolve 30M/50M has.

See I'm at the start of my career and whilst I'm doing mostly solo gigs, I do some duo gigs semi-regularly and occasionally trio gigs, so the EV's extra inputs would be pretty handy.

If I'm reading things right, all the Bose systems only have 2 inputs - so this means I wouldn't even be able to use my cigar-box foot drum without a mixer doing a solo performance...

What would you do in view of the above?

[YamahaGuy]

Originally Posted by computerman

Thanks guys this is really helpful.

Now I'm a little torn. It sounds like the Bose would suit me down to the ground, but it sure would be great to have the extra inputs like the Evolve 30M/50M has.

See I'm at the start of my career and whilst I'm doing mostly solo gigs, I do some duo gigs semi-regularly and occasionally trio gigs, so the EV's extra inputs would be pretty handy.

If I'm reading things right, all the Bose systems only have 2 inputs - so this means I wouldn't even be able to use my cigar-box foot drum without a mixer doing a solo performance...

What would you do in view of the above?

I almost always used a small mixer with my L1C Bose when I had it. Easy enough to set up.

[leew3]

I've posted elsewhere about my positive experiences with our duo using my relatively new Fishman SA 330x with the expand mixer. This gives us 6 channels and we can set it up between us and behind to good effect. We also use it as a main speaker in front and to the side at larger outdoor venues. Thus far it serves us well, has sufficient inputs and flexibility for our needs and sounds great.

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by leew3

I've posted elsewhere about my positive experiences with our duo using my relatively new Fishman SA 330x with the expand mixer. This gives us 6 channels and we can set it up between us and behind to good effect. We also use it as a main speaker in front and to the side at larger outdoor venues. Thus far it serves us well, has sufficient inputs and flexibility for our needs and sounds great.

OP, in case you're not familiar, this is another outstanding stick and the SA330x "expander" is a handy and relatively cheap way to add channels. It's all-analog controls, which can tax you less at a gig, that's personal preference.

Stick

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...e-audio-system

Expander, which is powered and carries signal via a Cat 5 computer/ethernet cable, and is quite light so less of a chore:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...der-for-sa330x

And Sub. Many and probably most singer/guitar-player owners here use the SA330x and its predecessor without a sub, happily, but depending on how much thump you have in your cigar box stomp, you may want it

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...for-the-sa330x

Yep this begins to add up. Oh and I highly recommend using Sweetwater as a research site in addition to being a great retail channel.

(btw the Bose S1 technically has three channels but the third is Bluetooth/1-8-inch aux in, so for your purposes.... two channels.)

And for YamahaDude: My L1 Compact sounds great with a Yamaha mixer in front. Still a great PA.