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  #1  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:58 AM
Frankieabbott Frankieabbott is offline
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Wink Can someone please explain to me neck relief..........

........and its relationship to a guitars action. Apologies for starting a new topic about relief.....a quick forum search shows numerous relief related post....and I reckon I've read all of them....but I'm still perplexed about it all. I realise that relief and action specs are personal to individuals and how they play a guitar....and that any specs given by either guitar set up techs or manufacturers can be 'tweaked' and are given as maybe a baseline spec.
The guitar I'm trying to get playing nice......the specs that can find online are :-

Strings size 10 set.
Relief. 3mm to .5mm
Action (measured at 14th fret (?) ) Low E 2.3mm...High E 1.7mm.

Set up to these specs......visually the neck looks as curved as a banana and the action looks way too high. But it sounds great!! Which makes me think that maybe the majority of all other guitars that I've had have had too low an action, and I've not realised the benefits to a guitars sound clarity and projection that I can now associate to more relief and higher action dialed in.

But it's harder to play.....and the 5 to 12 fret areas feel really 'spongy'. I like the sound.....but not how it plays!!!

HELP!
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  #2  
Old 04-25-2019, 04:37 AM
mirwa mirwa is offline
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A neck that is made well will be nice and straight without strings fitted, it will also have an imaginary line that runs down the top of the frets and comes to the top of the bridge, this is usually ascertained with your eye.

Dependant on how the neck is made, thickness, profile, comfort, wood species, lay of grain etc, the neck will react differently to string tension, so a builder will sometimes insert a truss rod of some form to strengthen the area greater than wood is capable of.

Some truss rods allow us to dial in relief, the relief we are looking for is just enough to create a small deviation from the straight line to allow the vibrating string to vibrate along its length without touching the frets that lay underneath it.

Our playing style can affect how much relief should be given, but it is a minscule measurement, typically in the .002-.004 thou range.

A good luthier / guitar tech can set these parameters up for you

Steve
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:27 AM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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Your relief numbers are too high. The test for relief is to set it so that the tendency to buzz is the same all along the neck. With too much relief, the buzzing will be worse on the upper frets. Too little relief will cause excess buzzing near the nut. Correct relief usually measures between 0.004" and 0.008". In general, the lower the action, the less relief is necessary.
Once the relief is set (using the above criteria) then action should be adjusted at the bridge.
While loosening the truss rod will raise the action, it is not the proper procedure.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:54 AM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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If you've read all of the relief explanations and still don't understand, I probably can't help.

Simply stated, when viewed from the side, the path an oscillating string traces is not a straight line, but a elongated ellipse. Fret board relief is added so the fret tops can more closely mimic that natural shape so action can be set lower without the string buzzing against a fret along the entire fret board.

Here's a relief diagram I created that might help; it's done for banjo but guitar relief is basically the same.

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Old 04-25-2019, 09:48 AM
redir redir is offline
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In a nut shell relief is a very slight forward bow in the neck to make room for the string which when set in motion tends to vibrate in a circular pattern. The biggest circle being the center of the string lenth from what ever fret you are pressing to the saddle. It's most effective when fretting the first few frets. As the string length gets shorter so does the arc that the vibrating string makes.

So the peak relief is in the middle as Rudy4's pic shows.

Relief is not a tool used to set action on a guitar however changing the relief does also change the action in many cases. When setting up a guitar the first thing you do is set the relief then adjust the action at nut if necessary and saddle. But sometimes a customer comes in complaining about high action and the guitar has excessive relief. In that case often times just tweaking the truss rod to get the correct relief is enough to bring the action down to where it should be.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:58 AM
Big Band Guitar Big Band Guitar is offline
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Warning wise guy reply.

Neck relief is when your guitar falls over and you find the neck is not broken.

Wise gut reply over.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:30 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar View Post
Warning wise guy reply.

Neck relief is when your guitar falls over and you find the neck is not broken.

Wise gut reply over.
Neck relief is a good message on one's shoulders and neck.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:51 PM
Big Band Guitar Big Band Guitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
Neck relief is a good message on one's shoulders and neck.
I would prefer a massage.
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  #9  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:27 PM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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Many people do not have an intuitive grounding in geometry and/or engineering. These concepts seem so natural to those who do live life in this manner that it is hard to understand the lack. It seems to me that if a person read everything available in the AGF on the subject and still did not grasp the principles of relief and action, that person would be well served to strike up a relationship with a guitar tech for whom the concept seemed obvious.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:35 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Band Guitar View Post
I would prefer a massage.
Those are good too.😁
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  #11  
Old 04-26-2019, 01:57 AM
Frankieabbott Frankieabbott is offline
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Thanks for the replies folks. I've read a feller called Bryan Kimsey musings on relief and action. It explains the subject very well.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/neck_relief_1.htm
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Old 04-26-2019, 02:03 AM
Frankieabbott Frankieabbott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
Many people do not have an intuitive grounding in geometry and/or engineering. These concepts seem so natural to those who do live life in this manner that it is hard to understand the lack. It seems to me that if a person read everything available in the AGF on the subject and still did not grasp the principles of relief and action, that person would be well served to strike up a relationship with a guitar tech for whom the concept seemed obvious.
You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions.” ~ Naguib Mahfouz
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