#46
|
|||
|
|||
pickups, microphones ... radars or thermostats ... they're all sensors that pick up (usually) 1 thing and turn it into an electrical signal. If we're going to not-fuss-but-generalise, just as well take that additional step.
One reason I objected is that (IMHO) an electric guitar is just as much (i.e. NOT) a guitar in the general sense of the term as an electric or digial piano is a piano, or a piano a harpsichord (or organ) or a cello a viola da gamba. Instruments are traditionally classified after how they produce sound, not by how you play them. The market has coined "electro-acoustic" for an acoustic guitar with a mechanical transducer, and acoustic-electric for instruments that are really intended to be played through their electro-magnetic PU but have a more or less (and sometimes very) decent acoustic voice too. Not ideal as terms go, but I'd say with stick to them.
__________________
I'm always not thinking many more things than I'm thinking. I therefore ain't more than I am. Pickle: Gretsch G9240 "Alligator" wood-body resonator wearing nylguts (China, 2018?) Toon: Eastman Cabaret JB (China, 2022) Stanley: The Loar LH-650 (China, 2017) |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
Until I play a venue bigger than the ones Gillian Welch and David Rawlings play, I'll stick to the trusty SM57. If I ever need a pickup I'll buy a $400 used Ovation, preferably a sunburst Balladeer or one of those with the leaves.
|
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
I play/sing at a number of local events without any p. a. (i.e. why on earth would you need an amp in a coffee shop!). If the stage needs a "lift" then I single mic'. And going for a 58 for vocals and 57 for guitar is if I need to really power it out. As I have said before - I expect many amateur guitarists (like I am) today have never learned how to use a mic' set-up for gigs. Or they may try once, fail, and that's it. Yes, I may be slightly quieter overall than the open mic act before me but, if I'm any good, I'll shut up the noisy audience that was talking all the way through their spot.
__________________
I'm learning to flatpick and fingerpick guitar to accompany songs. I've played and studied traditional noter/drone mountain dulcimer for many years. And I used to play dobro in a bluegrass band. |
#49
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
And man I love playing or seeing those shows! But the coffee shops I and many of us play are essentially bars at night and certainly as loud and packed as any bar. And then bars are, well, bars. Heck, even with monitors I struggled to hear myself on those stages - not because the band is loud but because the crowd is rowdy. Still, Robin's success with that approach intrigues me, and I'm curious about it for quieter venues. Still, tho, on the other, other hand... ...why do the majority of top touring acts/performers use pickups if this mic-ed approach can work so well? Why don't we see that commonly on, say, Austin City Limits? One assumes those top shelf acts working with pro sound engineers (vs. me running my own board from the stage etc.) could use whatever they wanted and would use whatever works best. Last edited by tdrake; 03-09-2024 at 02:38 PM. |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
There have been a few players I've enjoyed using a soundhole magnetic into an electric guitar amp and going for a consciously amped sound, and if I ever get into solo performing past the occasional open mic I'd be very tempted to use my Lawrence soundhole pickup and homebuilt Princeton Reverb-esque amp. If it's done well, it can be interestingly different from a solid solidbody electric or jazz box sound. Just as an example, here's Richard Dawson a few years ago with his mangled Baby Taylor.
__________________
Gibson G45 Standard 2020 Eastman E1OM 2021 Cedar/Rosewood Parlour 2003 (an early build by my luthier brother) Also double bass, electric bass, cittern, mandolin... Last edited by PineMarten; 03-10-2024 at 06:05 AM. |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
The acoustic guitar that I use is my 50s J-45 with the stock LR Baggs Element VTC pickup. It sounds okay, but not great. I use a Carr Impala as my amp for it's tone, low noise floor, and reliability. The electric guitar that I use is a Gibson Johnny A Standard. It's a hollow body guitar with a pair of humbuckers. It provides all the tones that I need. If I have any gigs come up this summer, I am going to just go straight electric for all of the sets. When playing live, I am more comfortable playing an electric than acoustic, and I prefer the sound of an amplified electric guitar over an amplified acoustic guitar. I would bring the Johnny A as my main guitar, and my Telecaster as a backup. |
#52
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
There have been so many of these threads you would think people would start to get it. And while there is no need for new terminology, there may well be a need for more understanding of the possible difference between personal opinions and objective reality . The truth is that any form of amplification mic or pickup is a compromise from the purely acoustic un amplified sound. And any and all compromise, is based totally on the individual subjective perspective of "what is the extent of the compromise " and " is it acceptable or not" (also totally subjective ) There is NO objective measure of "what is acceptable and what is not" in a compromise ... There is only individual subjective perspective and opinion The suggestion that putting a pickup in an acoustic guitar magically turns it into an electric guitar is more imagination than reality.---- Is it a compromise ? of course.-- is it an electric ? of course not, they are different animals sonically and feel
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 03-19-2024 at 08:53 AM. |
#53
|
||||
|
||||
As much as I appreciate the experience of many here like Robin who like to mic their acoustics and have had years of experience doing so, last summer I played outside a lot in the wind and I battled the mic for most of it. The combination of the wind, the other ambient noises, and evidently I can't stand still so I turn a lot made it tough for me. Anyway, this winter I decided to give in and bought a Gretsch hollow body electric guitar. I don't know it if is going to work better or not this summer, but realistically as much as I like to consider myself an acoustic guitar player, that pure acoustic sound is probably not going to be a big factor with the audiences we play for. I guess we will see.
__________________
Please don't take me too seriously, I don't. Taylor GS Mini Mahogany. Guild D-20 Gretsch Streamliner Morgan Monroe MNB-1w https://www.minnesotabluegrass.org/ |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
I'm not sure what size rooms some here are playing, but most venues I've encountered, even solo, are way too noisy to use a mic and there's no way even the loudest dread would cut the room(s). Whether that's because of the crowd noise itself, the size of the room, or a loud vocal PA, or other musicians (in a band setting), or whatever. Most sound people won't even let you set up a mic for your guitar, so that's usually not an option, anyway.
Which ultimately brings me/us back to acoustic pickup systems. Some do a better job of sounding more like your actual acoustic guitar than others, but those also tend to feedback more in loud(er) settings. EQ, phase buttons, compression, and other processing, usually help kill some of the overly bright/brittle problems, but many purists don't want to add any processing at all, saying that now all you've got is an electric guitar. Truth is, even the best pickup systems won't sound exactly like your unplugged acoustic guitar. But it doesn't mean it has to sound bad; part of accepting processing is understanding you're trying to recreate natural acoustic sound, unnaturally. Most of us don't have a problem doing that to our vocals over a PA system, but somehow an acoustic guitar must stay completely acoustic. In most live settings, unfortunately, that can't be done. The reason to play an acoustic with a pickup instead of a true electric is because they are very different instruments, physically speaking, and those differences affect the way you play; your technique changes, picking and strumming attack are different, string response is different, etc. So, other than having a cleaner signal from a true electric, it's really not a substitute for an acoustic guitar, rather just a way to not deal with problems inherent in amplifying an acoustic. Depending on the music, that might be a fine choice to make, but it really isn't an alternative to an acoustic guitar, per se. To me, it's less about how much your actual guitar sounds like itself over a PA, and more about how you're playing the music. I've played electrics most of my life and am/was much more comfortable on an electric for the better part of, well, let's say lots of years. But as I began to play more frequently on acoustics, particularly solo shows, I've adapted my style and the songs themselves for that instrument. Overall, my takeaway is not to get too precious about acoustic sounds coming out of the PA; it will still sound like an acoustic guitar, amplified, and your playing will support that. Which is ultimately the point. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Gear: PRS Hollowbody II Piezo, Martin HPL 000, PRS Angelus A60E, Martin 000-15M |