Alternatives to plugged in acoustics

[Silly Moustache]

After many years of buying various pick ups for acoustic guitars, I am resolved that any acoustic guitar with electronics of ANY kind - is an Electric guitar.

I have one Collings dread which has a K&K true mini plus a mic and a belt preamp.

I occasionally use the tru mini when there is no option, but when I'm in control - I use a simple Rode NT1 (original) and that's the best sound I've found.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Shhh..... don't say that too loudly.

Why, spatters on his screen?

Let me just add that someone like Jonathan Stout uses a goose-neck DPA lavalier to amplify his vintage acoustic archtops he uses in his big band. The brass in that band also play mic'ed (I'll never understand the need for that!) so all the conditions for great feedback problems are there, yet he manages to avoid them. IIRC one of his tricks is to put his amp in such a way that his mic hears the least possible of it (= behind him, I think).

I can still see why feedback can be a big problem when you need to work with your own on-stage amp, I find it harder to understand why venues that have their own PA don't use a distributed set-up with multiple speakers run at much lower levels (basically like what you see in big churches). Or if they do, why feedback is still a problem ...

[Chriscom]

Originally Posted by scordatura

Thanks for the input, all. Seems like this isn't a much discussed topic, which shouldn't surprise me-- it follows that the folks on the acoustic amplification subforum are pretty committed to the amplification of acoustic instruments. Anyways, I plan on playing an archtop through an electric amp at my next "acoustic" gig (likely a Guild CE100D through a Vox AC15, although I feel like something with a single coil would be closer to ideal). I'll try and remember to share my thoughts after

Please do!

Briefly want to say I can't think of the last time I heard a modern amplified Ovation but I have a feeling they're underrated.

Good luck to Scordatura! I can totally see myself heading into hollowbody land, which may be an easier transition for an acoustic guy who wants to add a different sound but isn't comfortable on a solidbody whatever.

[lkingston]

I did a foray into floating pickup archtops with solid tops and the electronics built into the pick guard. I love that sound, but find it to be more of a thing that I occasionally like for certain songs rather than a mainstay.

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I did a foray into floating pickup archtops with solid tops and the electronics built into the pick guard. I love that sound, but find it to be more of a thing that I occasionally like for certain songs rather than a mainstay.

Yes, a floating (neck) pickup on an archtop will typically give a "lofi" sound if you don't pump it through all kinds of "interesting" effect filters. I love all-solid (woods, not body!) archtops with carved plates and would never insult the builder of an exquisite sample by only using the instrument as a fancy looking e-guitar...

[scordatura]

Originally Posted by Gryf

I just saw Julian Lage last month play a solo acoustic set in San Francisco. One guitar. One microphone. The sound was fantastic (as was his playing....)

This would absolutely be my preference. I'm willing to bet Mr. Lage travels with a sound guy and gets to ring out the room before he goes on

[Birdbrain]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Shhh..... don't say that too loudly.

To be fair, I have also watched concert videos of him using a mag soundhole p/u with a full band, and electric guitars (often an archtop - which is what the OP wants to try).

And on a tour with Chris Ethridge a couple years ago, they both stood with one condenser mike between them. "Horses for courses."

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Birdbrain

And on a tour with Chris Ethridge a couple years ago, they both stood with one condenser mike between them. "Horses for courses."

I really like to play with one lcd on stage. I'm surprised that more folks here don't use that simple system. It is more adaptable to different venues/situations than folks realise. And ToneLabs have certainly given the concept a boost. It seems to be taking off a bit with a younger generation of musicians.

Having used a single ldc with a bluegrass band for 8 years of small gigs (pubs, sports clubs, hotels, village halls, field tents, festivals) I know it works just fine. I used one for a gig just before Christmas to cover 3 singers (two playing acoustic instruments at various times - guitars, dobro, banjo, mandolin, harmonica) as part of a 6 piece band. The others being electric guitar, electric bass and drums. It was in a packed Friday night bar and the foh balance was perfect. It was sooo simple compared to running 3 up 2 down or 3 up and plugging in the acoustic instruments. If I can manage a stage with an ldc as a complete amateur hack then I'm sure other folks could do so easily. It is such a lovely way to play/sing solo, duo or group.

Anyway, I have a solo spot in a concert tonight. Hotel function room, 70+ audience, and no pa system. You can't get simpler than that!

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by scordatura

I'm willing to bet Mr. Lage travels with a sound guy and gets to ring out the room before he goes on

Couple years back I had a chance to see Doug Macleod in a small venue in the Netherlands, and was allowed in while he was still setting up. He wasn't happy with what he heard back from the room as the "tech" was turning his controls so he ended up sending the guy home and treating us to a purely acoustic experience. I hadn't been playing long enough and was only too happy things weren't going to get too loud otherwise I might have offered to work his guitar while he worked the amp buttons himself. That would correspond exactly to what classical musicians do: walk out into the venue during the rehearsal/warm-up and assess how things sound.
Maybe Julian does the same, or he has someone do it for him and whomever is working the controls.

(This intro has some of Doug's wisdom about amplification and being loud - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJpVlt1Y7rw )

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by scordatura

That sounds like the direction I'm headed. Are you intentionally EQing to get a more acoustic-y sound, or just embracing the electric tone? Playing into an electric amp?

The Spark emulates an amp, in my case a Fender Deluxe Reverb. I guess it’s embracing what I can do with an electric without poking the audience in the eye. When I first made the change I talked to people in the audience during breaks to get their feedback. As much as we at the AGF would assume they would miss an acoustic, the feedback was universally positive.

I’ve got a very short video on my duo’s website that might show how it works. This was several iterations of amp emulation HW ago and shot by the market’s manager on her cell phone.

[bbigsby]

I would like to hear a Fishman power bridge on a Strat mixed in with position 2. Ric Emmett uses a Godin A6 and he had the neck pickup replaced with a super low output humbucker which resulted in a very nice tone mixed with the piezo.

I have been playing my Martin’s with a k&k and recently started playing with a band. The k&k is not cutting it and is lost in the mix. I brought out my old Godin a Acousticaster and had the cut, however I miss the feel of a real acoustic. Now I am thinking of picking up a PRS SE A20E for Rehearsel as YouTube clips sound pretty good. I played one in a store a year ago and the playability and acoustic sounds were great. Will see if the plugged in sound works.

[gfa]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

... And ToneLabs have certainly given the concept a boost. It seems to be taking off a bit with a younger generation of musicians. ...

Hi Robin, fellow single mic lover here. What is "ToneLabs" that you're referring to? I'm not finding anything that relates to this thread. Thanks.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by gfa

Hi Robin, fellow single mic lover here. What is "ToneLabs" that you're referring to? I'm not finding anything that relates to this thread. Thanks.

Sorry it was a typo... I meant ETL

https://www.eartrumpetlabs.com/

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Sorry it was a typo... I meant ETL

Easy enough to remember, they look like something ET might phone the Long way home with

[Charlie Bernstein]

You might look into Cole Clark or Maton guitars. They're designed specifically for amplifying, and their owners swear by them.

Also, they're made with sustainable wood, so they're rain forest-friendly. Worth Googling, right?