#1
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pickup comparison: K&K vs. Schatten HFN in one and the same guitar
Hi fellows,
widely discussed here at AGF: Which SBT should be the right one in one particular guitar. I took the chance:Right before deinstalling the K&K from my vintage Martin 0-17 I recorded it - and did the same some 40 minutes later, after installing a Schatten HFN. I like K&K in some of my instruments, but never could like the amplified sound in this old Martin box. Knowing the different sonic qualities of Schatten, K&K, Dazzo and UltraTonic very well, I decided to give the Schatten a try. Dazzo and UltraTonic - both would have been great choices - are hard to get here in Germany. Both pickups are the passive kind, so I used the RedEye preamp with the treble knob set to 12 0'clock. No EQ, reverb, compression ... was used. Recorded directly to DAW (Logic Audio, RME Fireface interface) I would love to hear what you think about the result. https://youtu.be/bdB7NzNo0F4
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Blazer & Henkes, vintage Martins & Gibsons, Altman, Martin 00016 Streetmaster mandolin family, Weissenborn, dobro, lap steel, pedal steel, 5-string banjo live gear: Dazzo, Schatten, K&K, Mimesis Kudos, Schoeps CMC6MK4, DPA4061, Neumann KM85, Grace Felix 2, SunnAudio, ToneDexter, RedEye https://www.youtube.com/@roberthasleder1526 Last edited by guitarman68; 05-28-2020 at 01:53 PM. |
#2
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Both sound really good IMO but the Schatten sounds incredible in this comparison. This is the first time where I thought the HFN had more than enough bass. It's a great match!
The HFN is such a frustration for me because I love the tone and the concept but I just can't get the bass out of it that I need. I wanted to pair it with a UST and literally blend in about 10% of the UST to get some low end but the HFN occupies the same space where the wire comes out of the bottom of the saddle slot. I really want to experiment more as I believe the HFN might be the best sounding pickup available, the string balance is just annoying. |
#3
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This is the beauty of Dazzo. Get the one perfect for your guitar and be done with it.
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2007 Martin D 35 Custom 1970 Guild D 35 1965 Epiphone Texan 2011 Santa Cruz D P/W Pono OP 30 D parlor Pono OP12-30 Pono MT uke Goldtone Paul Beard squareneck resophonic Fluke tenor ukulele Boatload of home rolled telecasters "Shut up and play ur guitar" Frank Zappa |
#4
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I am sure it’s fine but the beauty of the HFN is the putty/tape install. I also don’t feel 100% comfortable gluing in a Dazzo and finding out that the placement is just okay tonally. At least with the K&k there’s a fairly consistent jig to use.
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#5
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Nice demo.
The HFN sounds so much closer to the microphone sound than the K+K. A little TondeDexter or other IR would close that gap. The K+K has that typical midrange bump that people love or hate (I detest it). Nevertheless, it sounds pretty different from the miked signal. (Petty1818: Dazzo makes a range of pickups with varying bass response. You might talk with Teddy Randazzo, he will probably recommend a specific model for your guitar AND the bass response you desire.)
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-Gordon 1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway 1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway 2006 Larrivee L03-R 2009 Larrivee LV03-R 2016 Irvin SJ cutaway 2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread) K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter Notable Journey website Facebook page Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci |
#6
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It proves to me (again) that pickups are so guitar dependent.
Both your samples sound very natural although in a different way. But the same pickups might not sound as good as this even if acoustically a guitar they are installed in is fine. |
#7
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Why pay triple the price for a Dazzo that you have to epoxy in place when I don't think it sounds any better, especially for the price difference. I've been getting the best plugged in sound I ever had with the HFN.
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#8
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I like the HFN best and as Petty 1818 said the bass was nice and present. I have the HFN installed in two guitars and have been super pleased with the sound. I get very good bass response out of both guitars as well. Your Martin sounds fabulous, very well rounded sound for a small instrument. Thanks for doing that comparison
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#9
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Quote:
I use both, but in my highest quality instruments I specify Dazzo. I can hear the difference AND it is worth it to me for specific cases. Since I have my pickups professionally (and permanently) installed, epoxy vs. tape vs. putty isn't an issue (for me). I think for the majority of players, Schatten is an excellent choice for those looking for a more mic-like tone than a K+K. The price is super for what you get.
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-Gordon 1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway 1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway 2006 Larrivee L03-R 2009 Larrivee LV03-R 2016 Irvin SJ cutaway 2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread) K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter Notable Journey website Facebook page Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci |
#10
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Quote:
I do wonder though, with the Tonedexter as an option, does the price increase to a Dazzo make as much sense anymore? As good as it sounds, it will never sound as mic like as a K&k or HFN with a wavemap. |
#11
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#12
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That's news to me, since I own all three pickups and a ToneDexter.
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-Gordon 1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway 1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway 2006 Larrivee L03-R 2009 Larrivee LV03-R 2016 Irvin SJ cutaway 2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread) K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter Notable Journey website Facebook page Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci |
#13
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Quote:
Good point that the price difference can vary a lot depending on location. My main point was that there are some people and situations where paying more is justified and even necessary. Leaving aside collectors, there are people who do not see/hear ANY advantage in paying more than $1000 for a guitar, and then others who see (and require) the value in a 3K or 6K instrument. Who is right? Both points of view, of course.
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-Gordon 1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway 1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway 2006 Larrivee L03-R 2009 Larrivee LV03-R 2016 Irvin SJ cutaway 2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread) K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter Notable Journey website Facebook page Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci |
#14
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#15
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Another Schatten fanboy here - after years of searching and spending money. I installed 4 of them meanwhile and while I wasn't that successful that my instals make my guitars sound completely naturall I'm very happy with the sound. And the installation is incredible easy as is the deinstallation. With the next string change the pickup can be located a little different till you are happy with the sound.
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