Another pick up system to my L.R.Baggs Anthem

[Larsis]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Basically, unless you're very lucky, this pickup will require surgery, probably best done by a luthier.

I'm pretty sure, I don't want to any drilling or any other surgery because of it. The best solution would be buy one and try, if it's ko and if not, I'll return the pickup back to the store.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

How would you add another UST with the Anthem already there? Or you mean instead of the Anthem? We already talked about how you could add a K&K, but you'd have to move the TruMic.

No, what I meant was keep the TruMic on its position and just add another piezo next to it. https://sunvalleyguitars.com/wp-cont...-SL-Inside.jpg like to that free space under the saddle. I was curious, if it makes any sence to have one more piezo.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

What I think I'm hearing here is just that you don't like the Anthem?
As I suggested earlier, it'd be good to have a clear idea of what sound you are looking for - not just "I want a second pickup".

I'm sorry, maybe I didn't express myself well. I like the Anthem, I'm very happy with the sound, so I want to keep it. But a couple weeks ago I started thinking about adding some other pickup, so I can control and EQ them separately. I very admire fingerstyle guitarists like Mike Dawes, Alexander Misko, Marcin Patrzalek, Petteri Sariola etc. and I've noticed, they have several pickups in their guitars. Of course, I don't want 4-5 pickups in my guitars, but just add a different colour of the sound, if you know, what I mean.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Larsis

No, what I meant was keep the TruMic on its position and just add another piezo next to it. https://sunvalleyguitars.com/wp-cont...-SL-Inside.jpg like to that free space under the saddle. I was curious, if it makes any sence to have one more piezo.

I would not bother to put yet another pickup in the same basic location (bridge/saddle) that acts similar to what you have (but that's just my taste and experience, might be exactly what you want). That said, the Anthem doesn't pick up percussion very well, so if that's what you're after, a K&K might help, even if you put it in the wrong location. This goes to my "what are you trying to achieve?" question. If you are trying to pick up percussion better - something the Anthem doesn't do all that well - then adding a more body-sensitive pickup would help.

Originally Posted by Larsis

I'm sorry, maybe I didn't express myself well. I like the Anthem, I'm very happy with the sound, so I want to keep it. But a couple weeks ago I started thinking about adding some other pickup, so I can control and EQ them separately. I very admire fingerstyle guitarists like Mike Dawes, Alexander Misko, Marcin Patrzalek, Petteri Sariola etc. and I've noticed, they have several pickups in their guitars. Of course, I don't want 4-5 pickups in my guitars, but just add a different colour of the sound, if you know, what I mean.

Those guys are good examples of what I'm trying to suggest you think about. I haven't talked to any of them about their setups, but I'd bet they didn't just randomly add a bunch of pickups. Dawes had, last I knew, the Black Angel setup with a Mag (solid low end, good feedback resistance) plus and SBT (picks up body percussion). Misko has a crazy system, and while I'm just speculating, I'd guess that he has some sensors intended specifically to pick up some areas of the guitar where he does percussion. Based on what I hear from his videos, he also may be doing something that gives him separate bass/treble outputs, so he can have different effects on the bass strings than the treble. Others have done these kinds of things. Preston Reed used to have some setup where he put sensors in the locations where he hit the guitar - a bass drum pickup, a snare pickup, etc. Steven King used to have a Rare Earth in his soundhole, but turned sideways so it only picked up the bottom string or 2, which he then fed to an octave pedal, making it sound like he had a bass player. If you're going for the sound of Dawes, Misko, etc, keep in mind that they have pedal boards that look like space ships, the sound isn't just coming from adding more pickups.

Note that other players in the vein you mention have far simpler setups. Andy McKee for example. When I last talked to him about his setup, he was simply using a K&K, and not even the mic. I saw him recently, and appeared to just be using a K&K into a DTar Solstice. It tends to pick up the whole guitar quite well. Don Ross uses a K&K+mic.

[MrErikJ]

I'm no expert but I tend to agree with Doug: only add another pickup if the Anthem isn't providing you something you need. Some folks use a piezo/mic or mag/mic combo and add a SBT for percussion. For instance, Jon Gomm uses a Fishman Rare Earth Blend and has a Fishman BP-100 (an upright bass SBT) in his guitar to detect the "kick-drum" sounds of him hitting the bridge with his palm and wrist. The Mag and Mic are run in stereo and EQ'd for the best of each source, much like the Anthem is (the Element carries bass freqs, Mic mids and treble). The new Fishman Enhance systems adds a new SBT to their Matrix or Rare Earth models and it, seems, to respond well to body percussion.

More pickups becomes more you have to manage with outboard controls, which isn't necessarily bad, but the Anthem is designed to eliminate most of that need. Some players prefer to EQ those items themselves and if that's the case, the Baggs Anthem doesn't work as it's only mono. I use the Baggs Dual Source and it can be used in stereo but I only do that when I'm recording and I prefer to go mono in live settings.

[Petty1818]

Yep, it's always best to keep things simple if you can. Mike Dawes did a rig rundown for Premier Guitar recently and his rig is over the top. I also got the impression that he wasn't necessarily going for a more realistic tone, just one that works for him. He has the Dimarzio Black Angel, a Dimarzio Black Angel SBT, a K&K Trinity mic and a Schatten Dualie SBT. I know the Dualie is only there for the kick drum. It's an intricate set up but doesn't sound 100% realistic but it works for him. If all you want is a kick drum tone for example then check out Schatten. Their new Dualie is insanely small and affordable. Again, you could always get the stero jack that Doug mentioned and wire it to that. That way you only have one stereo cable and if you get yourself a blender, you can blend in the Dualie as little or as much as you like.

[Larsis]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

This goes to my "what are you trying to achieve?" question. If you are trying to pick up percussion better - something the Anthem doesn't do all that well - then adding a more body-sensitive pickup would help.

In fact, I'm doing many percussion stuff on my guitar. More straight playing than beating the guitar with hands. Actually, all of this was just an idea, how to get fuller, more "dimensional" sound and honestly I don't exactly know, what I'm looking for. It seemed as a good idea to have two separate signals out, so I can control them individually.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

they have pedal boards that look like space ships, the sound isn't just coming from adding more pickups.

I wouldn't agree more, "space ships" is the right word

As Petty 1818 says, coincidentally I watched the same video today and it is really mind blowing. Misko goes more further with his system and 5 pickups.
I know, it depends on their playing style, but Tommy Emmanuel for example. Here takes it very simple, just with mic+piezo in his guitar, if I'm not wrong Moreover, the pickup system for Maton and that's it.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Yep, it's always best to keep things simple if you can. Mike Dawes did a rig rundown for Premier Guitar recently and his rig is over the top. I also got the impression that he wasn't necessarily going for a more realistic tone, just one that works for him. He has the Dimarzio Black Angel, a Dimarzio Black Angel SBT, a K&K Trinity mic and a Schatten Dualie SBT. I know the Dualie is only there for the kick drum.

I hadn't seen that video, so he has more than just the two. But that system makes sense to me. SBT+Mag is probably the bulk of it. A mic to add a little air, plus the Dualie for a kick drum. Each pickup has a reason to be there. I used MagMic+K&K+DPA 4099 for a while, so I was just missing the kick drum :-)

The thing with setups like this is how to blend it all. It gets complicated. You need a mixer, you need the right input impedances for each pickup. You need phantom power for the mic. And so on. It can be done, but the pickup's just the beginning of the system. I saw Dawes a few months ago, and he sounded great, but it wasn't natural for sure. Arena Rock sound, buried in reverb and echo. Good tho, filled the room, and would go over great with an audience who expects a band instead of a solo guitarist.

[southbeck]

With all respect, adding another pickup to the anthem seem like a nightmare to me.

The anthem is already a two pickup system, and although it´s quite easy you still have to balance those two with the internal controls. Then still adding a third source to balance with those I believe would just be a lot of headache. And also I don´t think it would contribute much to the sound either.

Just my two cents! Experimenting can still be fun.

[Larsis]

Here's an interesting interview with Van Larkins about his setup. Apparently, he's using the Anthem (but SL version), with a magnetic pickup and K&K Trinity.

https://youtu.be/Ke0hUZRDUhM?t=1147

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Larsis

Here's an interesting interview with Van Larkins about his setup. Apparently, he's using the Anthem (but SL version), with a magnetic pickup and K&K Trinity.

https://youtu.be/Ke0hUZRDUhM?t=1147

Oddly enough, I was researching Schatten pickups on Youtube and came across this clip. The player uses the Anthem with the Schatten Dualie for more persussive playing. This might be the best option and you could try to touch base with him for more information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAro...bt0UP-M5-T-5JU

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Larsis

Here's an interesting interview with Van Larkins about his setup. Apparently, he's using the Anthem (but SL version), with a magnetic pickup and K&K Trinity.

https://youtu.be/Ke0hUZRDUhM?t=1147

Nice interview and description. Note the things he's talking about as far as the reasons for his choices. He's not just adding "more pickups", he's trying to dial in a sound with the choices, comparing it to choosing mics and mic placement when recording. The mag gives him the low end (and he runs it into an octave pedal). He's put the K&Ks under the saddle line, and moved the Anthem TruMic somewhere else. He also is adding a real mic, in addition to the TruMic, which doesn't really act much like a mic.

He has a pretty complex set of pedals, so he's applying reverbs on some pickups, not others. Shimmer on some, etc. You can definitely do this - and you can see that a narrow mag, like the M1 (or a Fishman Rare Earth) would fit with the Anthem controls. I imagine his full rig sounds pretty cool, especially in a large venue at some volume. When he plays here, just into an amp, I guess, and without his whole pedal board, it sounds like a pretty ordinary pickup tone to me, not bad, but not especially notable. Not clear what he's actually using, since he doesn't have his full rig. Maybe that's just the Anthem.

[Larsis]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You can definitely do this - and you can see that a narrow mag, like the M1 (or a Fishman Rare Earth) would fit with the Anthem controls.

That's what I was thinking, too. Then I realized, that's the SL version (just with volume control), that's why he can use a magnetic pickup, because it fits in and probably most of soundhole pickups would.

[Marty C]

I had an Anthem SL in a Martin D16. Didn’t like it, took it out and put it in my Martin 000-15. I had a M1A in an old Epiphone so I took this out and put it in my 000-15. I used a special cable hanging out of the sound hole so I could run both Anthem SL and M1A to a Yamaha mixer and blend there. The M1A has a similar airiness about it that the mic part of the anthem also has. I didn’t feel like it really added anything extra. I didn’t bother to adjust the pole pieces.

I only mention this since you could also do your trial the same way. The cable is not expensive and would also a non-evasive test for you. Maybe someone mentioned this already.

[Larsis]

One more thing, I came across on this internal mic https://nvtone.com/ . Very interesting, non-invasive solution and according to the sound samples sounds really realistic. However, I would be quite affraid of feedback issues for live playing. I gues, it's similar to K&K Trinity internal mic. Have you guys any experiences with this mic?

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Larsis

One more thing, I came across on this internal mic https://nvtone.com/ . Very interesting, non-invasive solution and according to the sound samples sounds really realistic. However, I would be quite affraid of feedback issues for live playing. I gues, it's similar to K&K Trinity internal mic. Have you guys any experiences with this mic?

It's been discussed here. Antoine DuFour has a review of it online. I haven't seen it myself, but I'm not clear on how it's any different from any guitar mic, other than that it comes with a preamp and EQ. I use either the Audix L5O or DPA 4061 mics, both very good mics, and use them with preamps with EQ, mostly to roll the low end off (which tends to be too boomy inside the guitar and feedback). I've also used the Bartlett mic, which is very nice.

Any real mic will do two things: 1) sound more natural, adding some "air", and 2) feed back if you play too loud. One of the nice things about the TruMic in the Anthem is that it doesn't feedback as much as you'd expect. On the other hand, it's not really functioning the same way a normal mic does. If you're looking for a natural sound, and don't have to play at high stage volumes, a mic's very useful.

[Larsis]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Any real mic will do two things: 1) sound more natural, adding some "air", and 2) feed back if you play too loud. One of the nice things about the TruMic in the Anthem is that it doesn't feedback as much as you'd expect. On the other hand, it's not really functioning the same way a normal mic does. If you're looking for a natural sound, and don't have to play at high stage volumes, a mic's very useful.

Thank you Doug for your opinion on the NVtone system. I like the non-invasive solution and the sound (based on YouTube reviews), plus the preamp has two outputs, so the second one could be for the Anthem. On the other hand, I'm quite affraid of feedback. Maybe I should it with some cheaper, low-end internal mic. Just give it a shot to combine these two systems.


I came across on one of Alexander Misko's videos and noticed, he's using the Fishman Rare pickup (I think, that's the one). What I know, every magnetic pickup should be placed as near to the neck as possible. On each side it has writing L and P to place the pickup in a correct direction, but he's using is the opposite way, to the bridge. Does it affect the sound somehow? Silly question maybe, but I'm curious.
For example, here is a video, where you can see it clearly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTxuNDYIkhU