Emerald Pinless Bridge Thoughts

[GuitarLuva]

Hey All,

Just looking for some opinions from people who have heard an Emerald guitar with their pin-less bridge system vs the standard. Any difference in tone? Which do you prefer? Was it worth the extra $450.00? Or any other details you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

Hey All,

Just looking for some opinions from people who have heard an Emerald guitar with their pin-less bridge system vs the standard. Any difference in tone? Which do you prefer? Was it worth the extra $450.00? Or any other details you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Good lord did I pay $450 for the pinless bridges on mine??

These are my first experience with pinless so I don't have much to offer other than my first string change, which left me with some questions that I should probably pose to kevin/alistair. The first string went in like butter, quick and easy. The second couldn't seem to decide whether to sit low in the groove, under the bridge, or in the little secondary cavity within the bridge itself. I decided that looked too unstable so I went on to battle every string endball into a crook so that it stayed deep.

If that isn't necessary, it's a super fast great system. If it is, then it still isn't that bad.

I like pinless bridges because it gives me more control of palm muting color. They do look slick too, and no fumbling with pins.

I don't buy the thing about effect of pins on sound so I'm not much help there. I guess I do have two X30s, one with and one without pins, but the without is also a wood veneer. I think the padauk sounds ever slightly more brassy than the without but I assume that's from the veneer rather than the bridge. I guess there's no way to know.

[GuitarLuva]

Byudzai,
Thanks for sharing your experience with the pinless bridge system. The $450.00 was an assumption on my part it seems that's their basic minimum for a custom mod but I haven't confirmed that yet with them (hopefully I'm wrong and it's way cheaper).

Regarding tone it's always been a long debate whether different pin material had an effect on tone so I was curious if the pinless system had an effect so that's good to know that if it does it's at least subtle.

Hopefully Alistair or Kevin can shed some light on your string changing issue. That part certainly won't hold me back from trying it though.

I'm with ya on the look as well it's definitely slick looking and overall just something different and certainly better for palm muting.

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

certainly better for palm muting.

WHAT?!?!?!?! Someone who actually agrees with me about pinless bridges and palm muting???? FINALLY!!!!

Each of my guitars came in around $3200, with padauk, fretboard customization, glowy fret markers, and pinless bridge, so I think it must have been more around the $100ish range for the bridge.

I'm kind of a heathen when it comes to guitar tone; if I were you I'd ignore anything I say on the topic beyond the big stuff.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by byudzai

WHAT?!?!?!?! Someone who actually agrees with me about pinless bridges and palm muting???? FINALLY!!!!

Each of my guitars came in around $3200, with padauk, fretboard customization, glowy fret markers, and pinless bridge, so I think it must have been more around the $100ish range for the bridge.

I'm kind of a heathen when it comes to guitar tone; if I were you I'd ignore anything I say on the topic beyond the big stuff.

Lol most definitely. Pins, especially certain style pins that sit higher up in the slot interfere to some degree with palm muting and that can get annoying over time. This is also my main reason for inquiring about this system.

But yeah that pic you attached really shows just how slick that system is!

[ac]

The poor man's pinless bridge:



Idea borrowed from another AGF member some time ago. Searched and found aluminum washers small enough to not interfere with Journey K&K type sound board pickups on my OF660.

The other AGF member has a small business and sells guitar related things. He created and sold a system that centered around using aluminum washers. He found they worked the best of all the various materials he tested. His business continues, but this item was abandoned over time due to lack of demand, so I had to hunt down the washers myself. Finding a source of aluminum washers took a bit of a search. Couldn't find them locally anywhere.

Yes, it's nowhere near as nice or convenient as a real pinless bridge, but I'm liking it for now.

There may be, on some guitars with a different bridge design, a way of modifying the bridge itself to become a true pinless. I don't know for sure. It's nothing I would dare try unless I read how someone else had done it successfully first, and even then . . . maybe I wouldn't take the risk with my low level dremel skills.

This works for me and is a cheap and harmless experiment. I'll decide over time if I'll continue with it or not.

Certainly no loss in sound quality that I can tell--and I think to my ears, it has even improved the sound--or it's improved my imagination at least.

[byudzai]

Originally Posted by ac

The poor man's pinless bridge:

my version is to put the pins in upside down. kinda janky but it works. just put them in from inside the guitar -- prevents slipping too.

i like this idea. might do it instead of the kinda ugly upside down pins. guess you just gotta order the right size washers.

[ac]

I bought about 40 for less than $15 including shipping. 40 was overkill--but . . . I figured I lose small things that can roll away!

You need to check that you don't have a K&K pickup disc or other pickup or electronic thing glued super close to the pin holes. I measured and ordered washers that I thought were easily small enough for each hole. But there was one disc glued quite close to the high E string hole. There the washer edge came up JUST to the edge of the disc, but thankfully did not rest on top of it which might have caused damage.

Below is what I got and where.

mouser.com

Mouser #: 761-M0592-3-AL
Mfr. #: M0592-3-AL
Desc.: Standoffs & Spacers 3mm, 3.2 ID, M3 ROUND METRIC SPACER

But, a slightly smaller diameter washer and even thinner might have worked very well too. I should have ordered, say, 10 each of a variety of sizes at the same time. Hindsight.

If you have nothing near your pin holes, then it doesn't matter much.

Note, the inside diameter cannot be bigger than the brass ends on the strings or, of course, the brass end will pop through and out. I chose an inside diameter small enough to prevent that.

[byudzai]

Just peered into the holes of my X30, whose strings I have not changed. Looks like this bridge IS designed to just hold the balls of the string ends, so all my fussing about getting them deep into the grooves was unnecessary. It's a breeze to change strings after all!

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by byudzai

Just peered into the holes of my X30, whose strings I have not changed. Looks like this bridge IS designed to just hold the balls of the string ends, so all my fussing about getting them deep into the grooves was unnecessary. It's a breeze to change strings after all!

Awesome man...good to hear!

[Methos1979]

Originally Posted by byudzai

Just peered into the holes of my X30, whose strings I have not changed. Looks like this bridge IS designed to just hold the balls of the string ends, so all my fussing about getting them deep into the grooves was unnecessary. It's a breeze to change strings after all!

I was about to post something about changing strings on the Emerald pinless bridge and thought I'd search and found this so posting here. I just received my latest Emerald and since Alistair was doing a custom bridge shape I had him do a pinless bridge as well. I just changed out to my preferred brand of strings and it was an a pretty fraught experience from the simple thing I'm used to with pin bridges.

The first thing was that while 5 of the 6 strings popped out when I loosened the strings the last one (B string) did not. It seemed quite stuck in there. Finally I found a small screwdriver to push the ball down and then it came out. I don't having to jam things down in those holes as my K&K soundboard transducers and wires are down there and I worry about damaging something.

I wish I could say the reverse stringing process went much more smoothly but it did not. The way I string normally I get the ball ends in (with pins) and then work from the other end keeping tension at the top while the post winds leaving the bridge side slack. But this would allow the ball ends to unseat and pop out. After some finagling I was able to get them all up to tension but two still popped out, one of them repeatedly. Finally I used the same jewelers screwdriver to basically hold the ball end in place while I got up to tension.

I've been playing for about an hour and nothing is detuning or popping out but I'm a little unnerved about using this guitar for Sunday's gig. I probably still give it a go but I'll bring the X20 as a backup just in case! So if anyone else out there has any input on tips and techniques on how to best change strings on Emerald pinless bridges, I'd love to hear them. I just sent an email to Kevin asking the same and I'll share if they come back with anything. There is nothing on YouTube for it, just string changes for Breedlove pinless bridges.

I'll post a couple photos of what I came up with in a second. As for tone changes, none. As for palm muting, I'm not finding it easier or better. If anything it's the opposite because I don't have those pins to counter my hand weight and roll off to the desired pressure. But I'm only just getting used to it so that might change with time. I'll update with anything more as I acclimate to the new system but as of right now if I was ordering I'd likely forgo the pinless bridge!

[Methos1979]

Some photos

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I was about to post something about changing strings on the Emerald pinless bridge and thought I'd search and found this so posting here. I just received my latest Emerald and since Alistair was doing a custom bridge shape I had him do a pinless bridge as well. I just changed out to my preferred brand of strings and it was an a pretty fraught experience from the simple thing I'm used to with pin bridges.

The first thing was that while 5 of the 6 strings popped out when I loosened the strings the last one (B string) did not. It seemed quite stuck in there. Finally I found a small screwdriver to push the ball down and then it came out. I don't having to jam things down in those holes as my K&K soundboard transducers and wires are down there and I worry about damaging something.

I wish I could say the reverse stringing process went much more smoothly but it did not. The way I string normally I get the ball ends in (with pins) and then work from the other end keeping tension at the top while the post winds leaving the bridge side slack. But this would allow the ball ends to unseat and pop out. After some finagling I was able to get them all up to tension but two still popped out, one of them repeatedly. Finally I used the same jewelers screwdriver to basically hold the ball end in place while I got up to tension.

I've been playing for about an hour and nothing is detuning or popping out but I'm a little unnerved about using this guitar for Sunday's gig. I probably still give it a go but I'll bring the X20 as a backup just in case! So if anyone else out there has any input on tips and techniques on how to best change strings on Emerald pinless bridges, I'd love to hear them. I just sent an email to Kevin asking the same and I'll share if they come back with anything. There is nothing on YouTube for it, just string changes for Breedlove pinless bridges.

I'll post a couple photos of what I came up with in a second. As for tone changes, none. As for palm muting, I'm not finding it easier or better. If anything it's the opposite because I don't have those pins to counter my hand weight and roll off to the desired pressure. But I'm only just getting used to it so that might change with time. I'll update with anything more as I acclimate to the new system but as of right now if I was ordering I'd likely forgo the pinless bridge!

Yeah I hear ya. As much I would like the move away from the standard pin bridge system that we're all used to it's merits become more clear to me over the course of time. As sleek as the pinless bridge system looks it's function is definitely a worry. I really came to like John Pearse buffalo horn bridge pins as they sit low in the slot and don't interfere with palm muting. Thanks for sharing your experience with the pinless bridge.

[Methos1979]

I got a quick reply from Kevin to my questions/concerns as follows:

Hey Scott

You are best to feed the string through the tuner hole first, then slot in the ball end whilst keeping the tension on the string, keep turning your tuner key and the ballend should stay in place.

Kevin

I kind of get what he's saying and I'll try something on the next string chance a few months down road. I also sent him one of the photos above asking if in his opinion the ball ends are seated enough. I'll let you know what he says with regard to that question.

I thought I remember someone here who got a pinless bridge on his Emerald then put on some locking tuners. That might be the ticket as well. It would make things that much faster and simpler. Anyone remember that post? I couldn't find it with a search.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I got a quick reply from Kevin to my questions/concerns as follows:

Hey Scott

You are best to feed the string through the tuner hole first, then slot in the ball end whilst keeping the tension on the string, keep turning your tuner key and the ballend should stay in place.

Kevin

I kind of get what he's saying and I'll try something on the next string chance a few months down road. I also sent him one of the photos above asking if in his opinion the ball ends are seated enough. I'll let you know what he says with regard to that question.

I thought I remember someone here who got a pinless bridge on his Emerald then put on some locking tuners. That might be the ticket as well. It would make things that much faster and simpler. Anyone remember that post? I couldn't find it with a search.

Not sure about the post your referring to but in no way would I personally consider removing those pretty Gotoh 510's for locking tuners on an acoustic guitar. Those Gotoh's are arguably the best tuners on the market for both form and function. Again that's just my 2 cents for what it's worth I wouldn't worry about it especially for the amount of string changes you will be doing. I'm sure you will get used to it over time. Maybe Byudzai can chime in with some more info on the pinless bridge system.