Acoustic recording home studio

[Normandy74]

There is much written on the topic! But i thought i would share the below in the hopes someone can unlock something i have overlooked!

I have an enclosed basement room. I have created a 8x8 booth with full height rockwool base traps, moving blanket/ foam walls etc.

I have an audient id44 AI. A variety of decent mics, starting with sm57, to a bit more expensive large condenser/ ribbon mics. Even a pair of mini rodes (matched) pencil mics.

I have a quality guitar, experimented with lots of quality strings.

I cant get a consistent decent acoustic recording.

I have spent months experimenting with positions, acoustic treatments, angles, guitar pics etc. in an outside of my enclosed studio rooms “vocal booth.” Xy patterns of all sorts, close up mic, 12”, 36” , all different polar patterns, solo mics or pairing them. Etc.

Sometimes i can get a little magic, sometimes the acoustic tracking sits well in a multi instrument mix. But just capturing that basic stand alone acoustic guitar - with a consistent sound quality is fleeting — basic strumming rhythm stuff.

Ive read and watched alot online.. not everything, but enough to be dangerous.

Any 101 thoughts i am overlooking? And major do’s and donts ? any unusual creative solutions out there ? Would love any and all comments or advice on what to try next ?! Thank you!

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Normandy74

There is much written on the topic! But i thought i would share the below in the hopes someone can unlock something i have overlooked!

I have an enclosed basement room. I have created a 8x8 booth with full height rockwool base traps, moving blanket/ foam walls etc.

I have an audient id44 AI. A variety of decent mics, starting with sm57, to a bit more expensive large condenser/ ribbon mics. Even a pair of mini rodes (matched) pencil mics.

I have a quality guitar, experimented with lots of quality strings.

I cant get a consistent decent acoustic recording.

I have spent months experimenting with positions, acoustic treatments, angles, guitar pics etc. in an outside of my enclosed studio rooms “vocal booth.” Xy patterns of all sorts, close up mic, 12”, 36” , all different polar patterns, solo mics or pairing them. Etc.

Sometimes i can get a little magic, sometimes the acoustic tracking sits well in a multi instrument mix. But just capturing that basic stand alone acoustic guitar - with a consistent sound quality is fleeting — basic strumming rhythm stuff.

Ive read and watched alot online.. not everything, but enough to be dangerous.

Any 101 thoughts i am overlooking? And major do’s and donts ? any unusual creative solutions out there ? Would love any and all comments or advice on what to try next ?! Thank you!

Excellent post and questions!

AGF Recording side is nothing less than amazing. We have some wonderful mentors with years of experience. In my opinion....much greater tutelage than Gearspace. Jim1960 has put up hundreds of videos & sections under the first post in Record (AGF MEMBERS GEAR LIST, TUTORIAL VIDEOS, PODCASTS, & COMPREHENSIVE BEGINNERS GUIDE) . Bob Womack & Dupleter are pro engineers with excellent advice. And KevWind always has great advice.

For the recording of acoustic guitar, Doug Young has led the way to help us get great recordings. He is an amazing guitarist & recording expert.
What I have learned:
* One inch in microphone placement can make all the difference in acoustic guitar recordings. Yes, it can be that critical to some. The difference between micing at 8 inches and 16 inches away are two totally different sounds. Depending on your room, your playing style weather you choose close or further micing. For most of us...closer micing gives us the sound that we hear when we are playing.

* Phasing occurs when you record with two or more mics and they are not Exactly the same difference distance from the guitar. Phasing, to simplify, causes a reduction/loss of frequencies through masking. Just a couple of post earlier people have talked about using the Plug in called Auto Align which helps you eliminate phasing problems.
https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=679895

* You mentioned you have room treatment. But are you using foam & blankets? As so many have said...Room treatment is the hardest for us to believe in. Yet...it really does make difference to have Pro panels. You can make them yourself....but Blankets and foam really do not solve the problems. Many engineers say room treatment is more important than mics and preamps. And in this video...you will see that this is true as every mic Doug uses, sounds good. Doug had explained to me " A flashlight in broad daylight does add anything to your visibility. But a Flashlight in the dark does. A microphone and room treatment are of a similar nature "



* Everything makes a difference. Your room treatment, the mics, the mic placement, the preamps. You don't need to invest all your money to get reasonable recordings. ...However...most of us are not interested in reasonable recordings...we want great recordings. And the sad truth is you have to invest in quality gear to get that over the top sound. But again...as you can see from Doug's video...you can get great recordings with less expensive gear. But we are the most critical of ourselves...and thus we invest in gear that will get us that little bit of extra that will give us the sound we want.

* Plug ins can make a huge difference in getting the sound we want. In my opinion, A Compressor plug in is extremely important, if not the most important plug in for acoustic guitar. However, it all depends on how you play. How much dynamics you impart. If you do not impart much then a compressor is less important. But since you do a lot of strumming a compressor might be of aid. And if you buy them on sale...they do not cost much. While Compressor is compressing the dynamic range, I feel it makes it sound like I hear when I play. Then of course the is also Equalization plug ins as well.

* And finally what you hear, and what the microphone hears are different. The microphone is face the guitar. And you are listening from the Top. One of the reasons why I lean over my guitar when I play to familiarize myself with the truer sound of the guitar.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Normandy74

I have an enclosed basement room. I have created a 8x8 booth with full height rockwool base traps, moving blanket/ foam walls etc.

That's your biggest issue. Four equal length walls makes for a terrible recording environment. On top of that, it's a small room. You likely have all kinds of standing wave issues that are building up amplitude due to the room being square.

There's no easy fix for that and you can't dig yourself out with better equipment. You might be able to make it a bit more tolerable but you're going to need thicker rockwool traps and plenty of them. Moving blankets and foam are useless for the problems a square room creates.

If busting out a wall and extending the room a few feet isn't an option, the only thing you can really do is add more traps. The low end buildup in a square room is going to be significant. I'm guessing, but I think you'll need to go with 8" thick traps in the corners and 4"-6" traps everywhere you can fit them. And even if you do all that, it's likely not going to solve all the issues. It will be better, it may even be minimally suitable, but that room is never going to be well suited for recording.

I know that's not what you wanted to hear but square rooms come with an elevated set of acoustical problems compared to other rooms.

[Silly Moustache]

Here's the thing.
Some time ago, after my first album, which was solo - just guitar and single track vocals sold surprisingly well (it was done in two studios, one good, the other (a bit too rock and roll) , I was asked by my mainly American contacts to do a second.


This time I wanted vocals, harmonies, acoustic guitar, bass, Dobro, and mandolin, but the cost and complexity of all this made it pretty much impossible.

I was whingeing about this to a good friend (now sadly passed). He took another long pull on his single malt (it was after mid-day, just) looked at me and said
"You can sing,right?" , yeah,
"You can play guitar?" Yep
"you can play Dobro and mando?" Well yeah,
" you could play a bass guitar probably couldn't you? " I suppose.

"Well then, why the (expletive deleted) don't you just get some sort of recorder and do it!"

Mmm.

I bought myself:
A Roland VS840 DAW.
A Rode NT1
A few recordable CDs
and a CD burner for my PC.

It so happened that I had to have an operation on my left foot, which would mean three weeks at home hardly able to walk.

For the first two weeks I sat in my tiny office and swore ant this electrical gear.

In the third week, I recorded 14 tracks, including a Dobro and a mandolin instrumental.

I "mastered it on the Roland DAW and stuck it in my PC and up/down loaded it to my I-Tunes.

From there I copied it as required. The CD artwork was very primitive and the front image was just me in a pub with my guitar case on the floor beside me. I mailed them to some folks in the US, and Europe, and pretty soon I was mailing half a dozen a day.

I also sold them at gigs too. I didn't make millions but it more than paid for itself.

Nowadays PCs run more quietly than they did back then, and you can get DAW programmes rather than stand alone units, so, practically, it should be easier than back then.

NOTE: I am NO WAY a techie.

Later, I made cds from gigs by my two duos which I recorded "Live" on a basic zoom recorder (Q2?) - no effects, no editing, no nut'n.
They sold pretty pretty well too.

It can be done without all the fancy stuff.

I've just fuond the details. It was 2002, and I called it "The Big Toe Tapes"

[TBman]

I'm not sure if moving blankets really do the trick for room treatment.

[Normandy74]

I love all this feedback keep it coming!! The recording area isn’t square it’s probably like 8 x 6, not that it matters.. with the one of the 6’ sides- the one thats in the actual corner of studio room, lined with heavy traps throughout all 6’ and the corner. Like 4” of rockwool. Im was trying to have one side be a really dead area and the back half half lighter, to just remove the overall larger rooms reverberation. Might just need to take it down and record in the open room, which is like 18’x16’ with finished sheet rock walls and ceiling and permanent carpet/ padding installed below. And just put the full height base traps in the corners and a couple linear ones on the walls and ceilings. They are 8’x18” traps.

[Doug Young]

i agree that the small box room is a likely culprit to consider. You actually don't want completely dead, for one thing.

But recording an acoustic guitar's also funny, when you first start, results often seem bad, then one day it clicks, and it seems easy. I think the issue is that there are a series of things to get right, from room acoustics to mic placement to how you play when you record, and a dozen things in between. How you are monitoring, and evaluating your results matters a lot, too.

Basically, everything needs to go right, and it's not always clear what the bottleneck is, especially if you're just starting. 95% of the time, tho, for people recording at home, it's room acoustics.

But posting an example of a recording might help people give you targeted advice, rather than everyone guessing. Often what's in the way is something no one would think of.

[TBman]

Here's a photo of my recording area, if you haven't seen it already. I have two more acoustic panels on the right behind the chair off camera.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Normandy74

I love all this feedback keep it coming!! The recording area isn’t square it’s probably like 8 x 6, not that it matters.. with the one of the 6’ sides- the one thats in the actual corner of studio room, lined with heavy traps throughout all 6’ and the corner. Like 4” of rockwool. Im was trying to have one side be a really dead area and the back half half lighter, to just remove the overall larger rooms reverberation. Might just need to take it down and record in the open room, which is like 18’x16’ with finished sheet rock walls and ceiling and permanent carpet/ padding installed below. And just put the full height base traps in the corners and a couple linear ones on the walls and ceilings. They are 8’x18” traps.

Well, you said "square," and I had no reason to not believe you.

So now we're even smaller at 8'x6', but it's not as problematic as if it were square. What I said about foam and moving blankets still applies, although you can probably get away with 4"-6" bass traps in the corners and 4" traps on the walls. If you go to the sticky thread, there's a diagram on Post #18 that shows how to treat a small room. For a small room it's bass traps, bass traps, and more bass traps because low frequency build up is always the biggest problem in small rooms.

You mentioned possibly tearing down the small room and using the larger room. That's what I'd do in your situation. You'll have a much smaller problem of low frequency build up in the larger room because those longer low frequency waves have more space to attenuate without ricocheting all over the place and building up in the corners.

Another thing to keep in mind that the center of the room is the worst place for both listening and recording. So in the larger room you'll be in a much better position to find a good spot to record. As for listening, you want to set up on a short wall and, if you can, pull it off the wall a foot or so. That way you'll get truer feedback from your monitors since being too close to a wall accentuates the low end.

Anyway, to paraphrase from Gillian Welch, tear that old stillhouse down. In other words, dismantle the small room. It's only going to make things harder to get right.

[Normandy74]

Yeah, i am going to go back to the drawing board. Thank you!!

Maybe create an isolated “area” like TBMANS set up. And as he said, the variables are so endless. I have tried to be diligent in systematically testing methods with only exploring one element at a time. So now its back to the room..

[Bowie]

It's hard to get a good acoustic sound from a booth, IMO. It gives it a "floating in space" quality. Even if the room isn't great, if you can keep the bass and the standing waves under control, that can do things for a mix that's really hard to fake with reverb. It gives the instrument a place and a feeling of solidity. One thing a lot of amateur mixes suffer from is everything feeling disconnected and it's worse these days by the fact that plug-ins don't "glue" a mix like hardware. So, getting the vibe right at the source is important.

I would use portions of the booth but try spacing them out, so you're getting partial dampening, especially in the corners where reflections can be ugly.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Normandy74

There is much written on the topic! But i thought i would share the below in the hopes someone can unlock something i have overlooked!

I have an enclosed basement room. I have created a 8x8 booth with full height rockwool base traps, moving blanket/ foam walls etc.

I have an audient id44 AI. A variety of decent mics, starting with sm57, to a bit more expensive large condenser/ ribbon mics. Even a pair of mini rodes (matched) pencil mics.

I have a quality guitar, experimented with lots of quality strings.

I cant get a consistent decent acoustic recording.

I have spent months experimenting with positions, acoustic treatments, angles, guitar pics etc. in an outside of my enclosed studio rooms “vocal booth.” Xy patterns of all sorts, close up mic, 12”, 36” , all different polar patterns, solo mics or pairing them. Etc.

Sometimes i can get a little magic, sometimes the acoustic tracking sits well in a multi instrument mix. But just capturing that basic stand alone acoustic guitar - with a consistent sound quality is fleeting — basic strumming rhythm stuff.

Ive read and watched alot online.. not everything, but enough to be dangerous.

Any 101 thoughts i am overlooking? And major do’s and donts ? any unusual creative solutions out there ? Would love any and all comments or advice on what to try next ?! Thank you!

It's much less important about the equipment then it is about the space. See THIS post with an example of using $60 per pair mics. The all important space is shown a couple posts further down, HERE.

If it's at all possible to experiment with different locations you might find that more cost effective than trying to treat a small boxy space to make it into something it isn't.

[dnf777]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm not sure if moving blankets really do the trick for room treatment.

I doubt it. I have much better luck hanging or draping them so they're still.

But really...I watched way too many YT vids about recording booths, and made a closet booth once I had a few decent mics and pres. What I found what what Bowie alluded to. Just not good sound from a booth. I know, the pros use them with much success...but for my amateur budget and skills, I thought the booth rendered really good spoken vocals (like for voice-overs) nice and dull, like what you want....but for singing and especially acoustic guitar, it just took away all "personality" and gave a dull, boring sound, that you really had to try and dress up again in post. I don't have a good recording space, but so far my living room (large space, vaulted ceiling, Douglass fir paneling, carpeted floor) does an acceptable job. Much better than my closet booth.

[Normandy74]

Thank you all for taking the time to help me out and provide guidance when (as I am quickly discovering) these topics have been covered 1m times on here. i now have a direction to go in. Thank you Jim1960 for taking the time to point me to #18. wow i have a whole new project on my hands.

I have torn down the "booth" and will start over this weekend. Inspired by Rudy4s video, i used a very basic set of twin rodes and played into the corner with no booth anymore. No EQ no nothing. the sound already seems far more clear than the booth. Just playing into a corner with some ugly bats I made!

I can hardly tell the difference in the sound right now, so much fatigue. below are four mini samples. Any critical feedback would be so appreciated! All really bad? thin? 1 semi ok & the rest really bad? etc.

https://youtu.be/WnJ7eb1hBuo

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Normandy74

Thank you Jim1960 for taking the time to point me to #18. wow i have a whole new project on my hands.

You're welcome.

Originally Posted by Normandy74

I have torn down the "booth" and will start over this weekend.

I'm glad for you. That really was your best move. Small rooms are so hard to tame. The larger space will be so much more forgiving.