SDC instead of LDC mics

[TBman]

It seems SDC mics are a bit easier to aim and line up for XY, ORTF, etc. I packed up my LDC mics for now, and went back to my Rode NT 5 and AKG Perception 150. Not a matched pair by any means, I may buy a matched set later on down the road. I was looking at a pair of sE Electronics sE8 SDC mics.

I feel my room is pretty much under control now.

I'm going to experiment with the basic mic setups, keep it simple and get some clean recordings done.

[Glennwillow]

Sometimes the combination of an SDC and LDC mic makes for a really nice recording. It's worth a try. The Rode NT5 mic has a rather severe bass dropoff on its performance curve but the LDC might add enough bass so that you never notice the weakness of the NT5. The NT5 can add a nice sparkle to the high end.

If you are considering buying a pair of SDC mics, I do think the SE mics provide good value. Shure KSM137 and 141 mics are also very good values, as are the Warm Audio WA-84 mics, also.

- Glenn

[Chipotle]

You might look into a pair of Line Audio CM4s. Inexpensive and punch well above their weight, even according to the cognoscente on another well-known gear forum. I have a pair and they are very good.

They don't have a distributor in the US; I ordered mine through NoHype in Belgium and got great customer service. I do see they have a Canadian dist now, you might contact them.

[RodB]

Ease of set up was one reason I went for SDC mics. Light, ease of mounting, stable on one stand with a bar - I use near coincident a lot - often NOS more or less.

I believe the difference between SDC and LDC on an acoustic guitar can be overstated, compared with other aspects like the chosen array, voice of guitar and strings, pick/ nail characteristics, etc.

There are a lot of good value mics out there now - I chose an SE8 pair a couple of years or so ago and like the results - more recently I bought a couple of omni capsules for them.

[dnf777]

Give at least a glance at the Warm Audio WA-84s. Very reasonable price, and Ive been very happy with my pair.

On a related note….STILL not clear on “matched pairs”. Yes, I know the industry answer, but 1) doubt any but the top shelf/top dollar mics are TRULY matched…and 2) why is that important in regards to our two un-matched ears and the CPU between them??

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

You might look into a pair of Line Audio CM4s. Inexpensive and punch well above their weight, even according to the cognoscente on another well-known gear forum. I have a pair and they are very good.

They don't have a distributor in the US; I ordered mine through NoHype in Belgium and got great customer service. I do see they have a Canadian dist now, you might contact them.

I have heard of these and liked the recordings done with them. I checked out the Canadian distributer and its one of those "email for price" kind of deals. I'd rather a website that you can view the product, it's specs, price and put it in a "cart" and pay for it using paypal, etc. I like dealing with online sellers that have a certain resemblance to a real business and not a cardboard carton of stuff in someone's garage.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Sometimes the combination of an SDC and LDC mic makes for a really nice recording. It's worth a try. The Rode NT5 mic has a rather severe bass dropoff on its performance curve but the LDC might add enough bass so that you never notice the weakness of the NT5. The NT5 can add a nice sparkle to the high end.

If you are considering buying a pair of SDC mics, I do think the SE mics provide good value. Shure KSM137 and 141 mics are also very good values, as are the Warm Audio WA-84 mics, also.

- Glenn

Good suggestions Glenn, thanks. I put the Shure mics on my Sweetwater "Wish list" for now.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by TBman

I have heard of these and liked the recordings done with them. I checked out the Canadian distributer and its one of those "email for price" kind of deals. I'd rather a website that you can view the product, it's specs, price and put it in a "cart" and pay for it using paypal, etc. I like dealing with online sellers that have a certain resemblance to a real business and not a cardboard carton of stuff in someone's garage.

All the specs are on the Line Audio site. I don't know about the Canadian seller, but I had great experience with Gerard at No Hype, even though it was overseas. Very responsive and when there was a shipping issue he was right on it. Price at No Hype is 120 euros per mic, plus 20 euros shipping, which at current rates is just $281 for two! I know it can feel like a risk to deal with these places, but lack of advertising, sales reps, etc. is one reason they can deliver at that kind of price point.

But No Hype shows CM4s out of stock, so maybe it's all moot.

[b1j]

Many variables. I found this comparison of SDCs useful:

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/be...oustic-guitar/

It contains 30-second sound samples of ten SDCs across the price spectrum. It has two recordings for each mic: one with a D-28 and one with a J-45. Right up my alley. Bites were recorded with up to four mics at a time, and if you listen carefully to small details of strum, etc., you can discern which mics were used simultaneously. That for me was a relevant comparison. I noted that the Schoeps CMC641 and the sE8 were used on the same bites. Honestly, I could hear some tiny differences between those two (I hope so! They’re three grand apart!), but it was not so great a difference that I thought it would be relevant in my space.

This made my mind up to get a pair of sE8 mics from sE Electronics. They’ve already upped my game from using LDCs. My plan is to use them until such time as my recording skills improve enough to reveal any deficiencies with the mics — if ever.

[alohachris]

Aloha Barry,

For more than 40 years, I searched for the Holy Grail combo of condenser mic's that could get me closer to the Windham Hill-type of solo guitar recordings from the late 70's-early 80's. I tried them all. And was able, even from Hawaii in those days of cheaper shipping costs, & tighter income, to do my own shoot-outs in my home studio.

Eventually, I was also able to participate in a group of international highest-end mic collectors for about ten years, owning some of the most famous mic's in history at astronomical prices. I met some of the best engineers & musicians & eccentric collectors in the world in the process. AGF on steroids! But all the time, I was learning from pro's about recording & signal chains.

But I started moving up to the ladder to that beginning with the absolute cheapest mic's - an SM-57.

Many aren't patient enough to slowly move up the trough to the higher end stuff or feel a hobby isn't worth the time & expense. That's what Zoom's are for. Ha! Becoming single was also a boon to my freedom in mic collecting. Ha!

But once there, * was suprised that very little money is actually needed to participate in buying/selling/trading or auditioning the best mic's available. I loved that ride! And now that you're treated, Bah, you can taste those deeper waters too, Barry. And learn so much more! It's time, right?!?

Additionally, I was a nightly gigger for 55+ years. So mic's, mic & pre combinations, quality preamps to control sound & spaces, combining compatible signal chains, & especially mic placement were truly the lessons that enabled me to function decently in so many live settings & studios. Many here were very helpful in my pursuit, like sdelsolray!

THE POINT of all this is that I always came back to a matched pair of quality SDC's for the most complete sounding guitar recordings with CONSISTENCY.

That's after really trying to stretch the envelope of mic combo's, placement & especially after committing to proper treatment. The search finally ended once I concluded that I could never achieve what I was looking for without my matched Schoeps CMC641 SDC's. My FINAL 'go-to's' for solo recording.

However, some of my experiments brought an LDC into combo with those Schoeps for different, excellent results too: like adding an AEA R-84 dry through its own AEA preamp & placed in the center of the stereo mix w/ the matched Schoeps SDC's (wet).

I also loved adding a solo or pair of vintage 1972 Neuman U-87 LDC's to the mix. I got great sound with the Schoeps close-miked in X-Y Coincident, Spaced pair, or in ORTFF (placed even with the top plane of the guitar side) & then adding the 87's a bit farther out in a widely spaced pair. Used an 8-channel Apogee Ensemble preamp for the four mic channels.

I also combined a Schoeps MK8 mic capsule with one MK 41 for Mid-Side placement experiments - a very direct, clear solo sound I liked as well.

BUT - I always came back to that simple pair of matched Schoeps with the MK 41 hypercardioid capsules as THE Fundamental for the recorded sound I wished to achieve. And of course, a treated space.

BUT NOW THAT YOU'RE FINALLY TREATED? LET THE FRANKENSTEIN EXPERIMENTS OF MIC's & PLACEMENT BEGIN, BAH!!!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

PS: In terms of trying out mic's, going to big-city stores or studio's, buying studio time, borrowing from a musician friend, renting, or "buying & returning" (again check the return policies carefully) are about the only options for auditioning mic's or gear at home today. But that's the only way to know for sure - & the only way I did it! Online shopping provides such scant information for mic's. So companies like Warm reel us in with ad campaigns aimed at those who do NOT audition carefully at home & at certain price points. I resent that! -alohachris-

[alohachris]

Aloha Barry & Friends,

The above Sweetwater SDC comparison is fun, but it provides precious little in sonic or other important terms in determining which mic to buy.

Remember when Doug 'dug' (Ha!) deeply into what Sound Cloud & other sharing platforms do to to 'destroy' recorded sound? The shocking results of the 'compression process' were enough that we should never listen to a guitar mp3. recording online ever again & believe that THAT is how it actually sounds.

Online recordings of any kind do not tell us where a mic sits in a mix, it's off-axis clarity & distortion, how it works with other instruments, its spatial layout of functions in your hand, the ease of listening to it, its speed, how hyped it is towards certain frequencies, its REAL self-noise or S/N ratio, or its build quality - could it survive a drop or bang into a mic stand? It cannot tell you how a mic behaves through different types of preamps or your monitors or how it sounds on your instrument. The list goes on & on as reasons to do your own auditions in your own studio & never trust these types of recordings.

If you're spending "mic money," you need to trust your ears only, live & on your own recordings using a given mic first, before you buy. Online clips simply don't provide enough information for that kind of important decision, IMO. It goes without saying that vocal mic's are completely voice-dependent & MUST be tried out by your voice first.

alohachris