Flat vs Radius Fretboard

[Tuba Mike]

Question from a novice guitarist and one who has only played steel string guitars:

I like the Godin guitars and remember trying a nylon string Godin (La Patrie) years ago. I really like it. But is was many years ago. The Godin has a radius fretboard vs the flat fretboard found on most other classical / nylon string guitars. Would that be a benefit to me or a hindrance to learning the nylon string guitar? For example, would bar chords be easier on one than the other or not really any difference? I realize the neck is wider on than my Larrivee and I’m okay with that. I’m just really wondering about the radius neck.

Any thoughts AGF community?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Tuba Mike

Question from a novice guitarist and one who has only played steel string guitars:

I like the Godin guitars and remember trying a nylon string Godin (La Patrie) years ago. I really like it. But is was many years ago. The Godin has a radius fretboard vs the flat fretboard found on most other classical / nylon string guitars. Would that be a benefit to me or a hindrance to learning the nylon string guitar? For example, would bar chords be easier on one than the other or not really any difference? I realize the neck is wider on than my Larrivee and I’m okay with that. I’m just really wondering about the radius neck.

Any thoughts AGF community?

Have had many years playing classical guitars and and steel string flattops. As you said most classical guitars have flat fretboards.
I think you can guess there likely is a reason for that. Personally I find a flat fretboard on a classical guitar just fine whereas on the
flattop I much prefer a radiused fretboard.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Tuba Mike

Question from a novice guitarist and one who has only played steel string guitars:

I like the Godin guitars and remember trying a nylon string Godin (La Patrie) years ago. I really like it. But is was many years ago. The Godin has a radius fretboard vs the flat fretboard found on most other classical / nylon string guitars. Would that be a benefit to me or a hindrance to learning the nylon string guitar? For example, would bar chords be easier on one than the other or not really any difference? I realize the neck is wider on than my Larrivee and I’m okay with that. I’m just really wondering about the radius neck.

Any thoughts AGF community?

Coming from steel strung guitar, you probably want to investigate "crossover" instruments. Here's a bit I wrote about crossover guitar, HERE.

I have two 1-7/8" crossovers with a radiused neck and just got a 1-7/8" flat board so it's too early to offer an opinion as to which I prefer.

I can tell you that Barre chords are easier on a radiused neck, but most players don't play Barre chords on nylon-strung guitar.

[rick-slo]

Barre chords on a traditional classical guitar are used quite frequently in classical guitar music. Classical fretboard flat (or flatter) due to wider fretboard,
the benefit of a more even string height coming off the flat saddle, probable more accuracy fretting, and tradition.

[redir]

One of my classical guitars has a 20in radius and I go from liking it to not liking it all the time. I can't quite figure it out. It does make barre chords easier though for me anyway.

[Five Fourths]

Two thoughts:

- I started on classical and thought a crossover would help me transition to a steel-stringed guitar. I bought a Taylor 814ce-N and lost $1,000 on it when I sold it in pristine condition after only using it a couple of times. I didn't need it to help the transition. I just needed to play the steel-stringed guitars I wanted to play.

- My guess on why classical guitar fretboards are not traditionally radiused (in addition to what rick-slo said) is due to the fact that the upright position in which they are held does not require the same "finger stretch" for barre chords on the low frets as does a steel-stringed guitar held more horizontally.

When I hold my classical (left leg, neck fairly upright) and place my index finger across the first fret as if playing an F chord, I can relax my finger in a straight position. When I do the same thing holding a dreadnought across my lap (right leg, neck horizontal), my finger will not lay straight across the first fret. The reach and wrist position cause it to curve. The more I move up the board, the easier it is to straighten my finger, hence the usefulness of the compound radius fretboard.

You don't have to have both types to experiment with this idea. Just take whatever kind of guitar you have and move it from horizontal (steel-string style) to upright (classical style) while holding a fully-barred chord in first position.

Louis

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Five Fourths

Two thoughts:

- I started on classical and thought a crossover would help me transition to a steel-stringed guitar. I bought a Taylor 814ce-N and lost $1,000 on it when I sold it in pristine condition after only using it a couple of times. I didn't need it to help the transition. I just needed to play the steel-stringed guitars I wanted to play.

- My guess on why classical guitar fretboards are not traditionally radiused (in addition to what rick-slo said) is due to the fact that the upright position in which they are held does not require the same "finger stretch" for barre chords on the low frets as does a steel-stringed guitar held more horizontally.

When I hold my classical (left leg, neck fairly upright) and place my index finger across the first fret as if playing an F chord, I can relax my finger in a straight position. When I do the same thing holding a dreadnought across my lap (right leg, neck horizontal), my finger will not lay straight across the first fret. The reach and wrist position cause it to curve. The more I move up the board, the easier it is to straighten my finger, hence the usefulness of the compound radius fretboard.

You don't have to have both types to experiment with this idea. Just take whatever kind of guitar you have and move it from horizontal (steel-string style) to upright (classical style) while holding a fully-barred chord in first position.

Louis

Your suppositions are 100% correct from what I have deduced from my short time of playing a flat board. The other part of the formula is the neck width.

Your comment on getting a crossover as a way of moving to steel string is interesting, as that's the first time I've heard someone use that reasoning. When I decided to try a crossover all of the information I could find was from steel string players who purchased crossovers as a way of entering the nylon string world while still retaining the familiarity of a narrower radiused fret board.

I'm alternating between a flat and radiused board at present and haven't decided which one feels right or allows me to play more easily, so jury still out...

[canuck7]

Interesting discussion. I hold my classical guitar similar to my acoustic steel string...on my right thigh, although legs usually crossed. I have never been comfortable playing a classical between the legs with the neck up high. Of course, when you look at classical players, there are some greats that position it like an acoustic, so that's my personal justification. Dominic Miller comes to mind, and of course, there's Paco De Lucia.
I find the wider nut width on the classical to be a bit of challenge sometimes, although I have moved to a wider nut width on my acoustics and prefer 1&13/16th or 1&7/8th neck width as I play fingerstyle. On the acoustic, the string tension is higher, so barring a chord is more of a challenge as well because of this factor...so, the jury is out for me too!!

[btbliatout]

To chime in, while the pro of a radiused fretboard is well-known, one pro of a a flat fretboard is that they have greater uniformity from the plucking hand perspective. E.g. a super small radius fretboard (imagine a 1" radius) would essentially form a semi circle in cross section, and plucking or strumming consistently across all strings would be challenging, if not impossible. The opposite extreme is a completely flat fretboard, and the right hand can deal with that extreme much better than the other extreme.

[dosland]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

To chime in, while the pro of a radiused fretboard is well-known, one pro of a a flat fretboard is that they have greater uniformity from the plucking hand perspective. E.g. a super small radius fretboard (imagine a 1" radius) would essentially form a semi circle in cross section, and plucking or strumming consistently across all strings would be challenging, if not impossible. The opposite extreme is a completely flat fretboard, and the right hand can deal with that extreme much better than the other extreme.

This is a really good point, and as someone who isn't particularly proficient technically, and as a leftie, right hand technique has always been my biggest shortcoming. A flat fretboard and a reasonably conservative saddle make my life slightly easier, if only by reducing the excuses I can fall back on...

[tkoehler1]

After transitioning to classical guitars I couldn't understand the lack of a radiused board, and I still don't. It's simply easier to play a radiused board.

While it's easier to play a radiused board the low tension of the nylon strings makes them quite playable even with a flat board. And all the gorgeous sounding vintage guitars that classical guitarists crave have flat boards.

I think the resistance to it is based on tradition and nothing more.

Just like position markers. Is it easier to play with position markers? Yes it is. Can you play without them? Yes. Do the great guitars have them? No. So they are out of favor.

Since I have the ability to pay for a custom built guitar I order them with radiused boards. Best of both worlds.

TK

[Carey]

More and more CGs these days have boards made with a slight radius. I agree that they're easier to play; also, a flat board tends to shrink concave across its width (not good) over time, given the very hard, relatively unstable, and slow-drying woods they're typically made from.

[btbliatout]

Originally Posted by tkoehler1

After transitioning to classical guitars I couldn't understand the lack of a radiused board, and I still don't. It's simply easier to play a radiused board.

While it's easier to play a radiused board the low tension of the nylon strings makes them quite playable even with a flat board. And all the gorgeous sounding vintage guitars that classical guitarists crave have flat boards.

I think the resistance to it is based on tradition and nothing more.

I respectfully propose that it's probably a personal thing. For me and my flamenco studies, a flat fretboard is easier. I can tell you my rasgueado is anything but perfect, and the more linear the strings are (flatter the fretboard) the better chance my right hand has at making a clean and even rasgueado.

Going back to what I mentioned earlier in the thread about the plucking hand, a radius would theoretically put String 1 further away from the knuckle of my 'a' and 'e' fingers, thus making my already short ring and pinky fingers have to work harder to hit. I already grow my pinky nail longer than the others to give me just that little bit of extra length, and it can still sometimes miss String 1 on a downward stroke. Aye, to an extent I just need to level up :-), but having an instrument that doesn't work against me is also nice, and in some cases, a radius is working against me. So I'm definitely in the camp that likes a flat fretboard, for what I believe to be a practical reason.

I will say for the left hand, a radius does theoretically make barre chords easier, and I'm unsure if anyone here could suggest otherwise. I know I certainly prefer a radius on my steel string. Probably because I'm not trying to flick my nails across those strings.

[ckmurf]

There is more to the Godin magic than just the radiused fingerboard. After playing fingerstyle on a classical for 35 years I bought a Godin Multiac and marveled at how great the neck felt. I attributed this to the radius. Then one day I realized that the neck shape was more of a C than the traditional classical boat. I had an inexpensive classical that was actually a nice guitar, so I took a belt sander to it and reshaped the neck to a C profile… the heavens opened.
So, now I am having a custom best of all words built- Torres body, radiused fingerboard, C shape that matches my Godin. Having played fingerstyle on full width classical guitars for 50 years now, my opinion is that a radiused fingerboard and C shape neck is FAR easier to play.
My too sense.

[canuck7]

Originally Posted by ckmurf

There is more to the Godin magic than just the radiused fingerboard. After playing fingerstyle on a classical for 35 years I bought a Godin Multiac and marveled at how great the neck felt. I attributed this to the radius. Then one day I realized that the neck shape was more of a C than the traditional classical boat. I had an inexpensive classical that was actually a nice guitar, so I took a belt sander to it and reshaped the neck to a C profile… the heavens opened.
So, now I am having a custom best of all words built- Torres body, radiused fingerboard, C shape that matches my Godin. Having played fingerstyle on full width classical guitars for 50 years now, my opinion is that a radiused fingerboard and C shape neck is FAR easier to play.
My too sense.

Couldn't agree more...for me, the C shape, a thicker neck - 24 mm thickness at the 1st fret, 25-26 mm thickness at the 12th fret, and the Torres body or smaller shape, fits my bill!