ball end strings - "No" from Yamaha guitars

[banjo1971]

I'm a beginner for classical guitar, I play regular acoustic guitar and banjo. Before I buy a cheap Yamaha classical guitar, I wanted to know why you can't use ball end nylon strings. I'm sure I'd get used to tying the knots after some practice, but right away I wanted to try ball end nylon strings. I contacted Yamaha guitars and they just told me "no, we don't recommend ball end strings." Why not?

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by banjo1971

I'm a beginner for classical guitar, I play regular acoustic guitar and banjo. Before I buy a cheap Yamaha classical guitar, I wanted to know why you can't use ball end nylon strings. I'm sure I'd get used to tying the knots after some practice, but right away I wanted to try ball end nylon strings. I contacted Yamaha guitars and they just told me "no, we don't recommend ball end strings." Why not?

The sound of different brands and types of strings contribute to a wide range of tone and volume for classical guitars. Most players feel that ball end strings aren't made of top tier materials so the sound is effected negatively.

I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that it's not difficult to tie strings on. Your first time might be a bit slow, but it really is no big deal.

[gerhardp]

I've gotten used to tying the knots over the decades, but some swearing still is there occasionally while fiddling with it. I get better though.
Never tried the ball ends, but I really wonder if it is actually a quality issue (hard to believe) or just more a style question, like you can't wear plaid with stripes?

[pentaprism]

Originally Posted by banjo1971

I contacted Yamaha guitars and they just told me "no, we don't recommend ball end strings." Why not?

Why not? Because it is not in Yamaha book.

I contacted Yamaha and they told me that I had to use Yamaha nail clippers, Yamaha nail files. They even told me that I had to breathe Yamaha air and drink Yamaha coffee.

[TBman]

I use the string "beads" for my classicals. Takes the pain out of changing strings.

[Navy]

Yamaha [emoji477]️, [emoji848]... [emoji38]

[cdkrugjr]

No reason.

The only reason Brand X tells you to use Brand X strings is because they make strings under their own brand, and have at least a small motivation to be sure their strings play well on their guitars, though that varies.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with ball end strings. You can tie a bead or crimp a ball on the end of any string.

Thing about strings is this: Strings are your physical connection to your instrument, and so will be VERY personal to you.

For now, pretty much any set of strings will get you playing. Eventually you’ll learn about half sets, and your brain might explode while you evaluate basses, trebles, and whether or not to add a Carbon G. But that’s all in the future.

[dosland]

A few years back many 1s and a few 0s were spilled on this forum regarding exactly this issue - are ball-end strings the salvation of the world or our utter ruination? There was much mathematical explication that purported to show or to not show that ball-end strings have inherently different tension from (or to) knotty strings. So it all boils down to tension, apparently. But also not, apparently. My only problem with ball-end strings is they're usually not sitting right there when I go to buy new strings, and I can't be bothered trying to find them. In the current phase of life, anything that makes me spend a bit more time with my guitars seems like a good thing, even if there is some muttering and cursing under my breath as my sausage fingers fiddle with the knots.

TLDR: do whatever you want, most people doubt that the ball-end strings will rip your bridge off any more than knotted or beaded strings.

[gmr]

Once you’ve done it a few times, tying the nylon strings is not that difficult, but it does take a bit more time. The balls on ball end strings can dig in to the wood of the bridge and may cause issues over time, maybe. I started using the Rossette string ties on my nylon string guitars. They are easy to use, clean up the look of the bridge, hold well, and add so little weight I can’t imagine them causing any tonal changes.

[btbliatout]

@banjo1971,

Classical guitar Tie-Beads have been around for a while now, which kind of addresses this issue. Please take just a moment to google it.

Ball-end strings are the easiest and most convenient for obvious reasons. The primary downside I can envision is greater wear and tear on the tie block, as the entirety of the bass strings (with all their windings) have to be fed through the bridge (wearing out the string holes more than necessary), and the ball-end may eat away at the tie block faster than a traditional knot just due to it's hardness. Mind you this is 100% speculation.

At the other end is just doing traditional knots. It's the standard, so I won't dive into pros or cons.

In between is where Tie-Beads lay. With a very easy user-tied knot, one makes a normal string a ball-end string (well, a bead-end string). Most beads are not some hard metal ball either, and because of that, I imagine they tend to wear at the tie block less. Actually, in my experience, Tie-Beads wear the tie block less than traditional knots too, because their's no wrapping/looping around the block that slowly (but surely) eats into it.

But how important is wear and tear? I imagine your average tie block can undergo hundreds of string changes without needing repair...so...who cares? I recommend Tie-Beads because they are just easier, and you can use them with any strings younlike.

[cdkrugjr]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

@banjo1971,

But how important is wear and tear? I imagine your average tie block can undergo hundreds of string changes without needing repair...so...who cares? I recommend Tie-Beads because they are just easier, and you can use them with any strings younlike.

How do you tie the basses?

[brad4d8]

I would contact one of the companies (D'Addario, LaBella, Ernie Ball, i.e.) that make both traditional and ball end nylon strings and ask their opinion, or at least the differences in the material in the strings. I think many ball ends have different windings on the bass strings than "real" classical strings, but may be wrong there.

[btbliatout]

Originally Posted by cdkrugjr

How do you tie the basses?

@cdkrugjr,

If I'm using traditional knots, I do it the typical way. Sweetwater has a webpage with a nice animated gif showing the method:
How to String a Classical Guitar

If I'm using tie-beads, I just follow the instruction of the beads' manufacturer. The beads I tend to use are by Rosette, which I just purchase from Strings by Mail. They have a few photos of it (including how to tie them) on the site:
Diamond Secure String Tiesl

But possibly you're suggesting that my tying technique shouldn't be wearing-and-tearing at the tie block? If so, I hope I made it clear that such suggested wear-and-tear is probably negligible. I do know, however, that when I remove a string (while changing them out), I can see little indentations on the tie block where my strings bite into the tie block a bit. And I imagine after enough changes, sooner or later the metal windings around the bass strings will damage the tie block to the point that some sort of repair would be necessary. It might be a grandkid who has to deal with it, but, eh, it'll probably happen if the instrument somehow keeps getting played that long.

[DDW]

One reason not to use them might be that there are far fewer choices in ball end strings. Most nylon strings need to be tied.