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Old 03-24-2023, 10:21 AM
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Default Watching my hands.

My teacher has been riding me for over a year not to watch my hands. I noticed this week if I keep looking at them they get self conscience because they are being watched and mess up. I'm a not a great player by any means but I'm better if I don't watch. I just thought that was interesting.
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Old 03-24-2023, 11:43 AM
capefisherman capefisherman is offline
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My apologies to your teacher but I have to disagree with this, with one proviso: If you're looking at your hands to confirm you're in the right place - which of course is a confidence builder for the beginner/intermediate level student - that's OK.....for a little while in the learning process anyway.

BUT....and this is a BIG one: If you're looking at your fretting hand and the neck to anticipate where you're going next, good!!! Anticipating changes is absolutely vital as you move into more complicated music. If you don't believe me, ignore the "star" or featured performer who's most likely not looking at his/her hands because what they are playing they have played many, many times and may be relatively easy. Instead, look at the lead guitarist behind that person. You will immediately notice that this person's eyes don't leave the guitar very often, if at all. This is because they are anticipating the changes and what they want to do with them to embellish the songs, something that will most likely change a number of times with the same chord or sequence at different points in the song.

After teaching private guitar lessons for more than 40 years, to many, many hundreds of students of all ages and levels of experience I can say without hesitation that the biggest challenge for the beginner/intermediate level player is RHYTHM - keeping a steady beat. Without being ready for changes - anticipating them - it's pretty much an ironclad guarantee keeping a steady beat will be close to impossible. And anticipation that includes looking at the fretting hand is part of the process.

Yes, as time passes and you know a particular song better and better through muscle memory and repetition you will need to look at your hands less frequently. But as long as you're looking at them to prepare for the next change or set of changes, not to just confirm you're doing the right thing at that moment in time.... in my opinion anyway!
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Old 03-24-2023, 12:12 PM
Dogma Dogma is offline
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This is a very interesting and astute observation, well articulated! It resonates with what I am learning and experiencing in my own playing "journey." Thank you, capefisherman, for taking the time to put it out there so clearly.
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Old 03-24-2023, 01:09 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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When singing I try to look up, not down. But once in a while it can't be helped, with big leaps up the neck especially. Even then, though, it's the dots I'm looking at, not the hands.
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Old 03-24-2023, 02:16 PM
Bob from Brooklyn Bob from Brooklyn is offline
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Old 03-24-2023, 02:38 PM
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The majority of my playing is with other people in jams and song circles.

I've found the most successful, rhythmically tight and satisfying jams are when the players are watching and listening to each other.

Most people focus on what they're looking at (this is why the Motorcycle Safety Foundation training tells us NOT to look at the danger you're trying to avoid, but at the safe path you want to take). When musician's eyes are focused on a lyric sheet, chord chart or score or printed notation; OR on their hands - they usually stop listening to the other players.

Even when I played with formal bands and orchestras, complete with music stands and sheet music, I kept my eyes on the band leader/conductor 90 % of the time, with just occasional glances at the music. I always knew where my hands were.

I strongly recommend the teacher's advice (if you want to be able play successfully with others.
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Old 03-24-2023, 05:40 PM
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I look at the music notation, not my hands. If I'm doing a 9 fret jump I'll take a peek though .
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Old 03-25-2023, 03:15 AM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rllink View Post
My teacher has been riding me for over a year not to watch my hands. I noticed this week if I keep looking at them they get self conscience because they are being watched and mess up. I'm a not a great player by any means but I'm better if I don't watch. I just thought that was interesting.
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Old 03-25-2023, 03:32 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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For those still learning to fret and change chords, I encourage then to practice changing from one chord to another, without looking at them.

This encourages "muscle" memory.
Those who always watch their hands when they change create a visual memory, which is limiting.

Once they can play a 3, and 4, chord change without looking at their hands -the "process" seems embedded and they can progress to extending it to 5 and 6 chord changes can be done with ease.

Changes from , say 1st position, to 7th fret, or 9th fret will require a gentle glance for accuracy, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Likewise complicated melody/lead lines will at least partially require visual checking. (personally I find it better to close my eyes when I solo as in ways that I cannot explain, I "see" the notes in my head - but that is something that has developed over fifty years.

Back to learners (yes we are all learners) , ok beginners, if I see what I call "the laying on of hands" where a chord is fretted finger by finger - it is necessary to develop non visual muscle memory.

However every client/student is different and should be treated and encouraged as an individual.
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Old 03-25-2023, 08:18 AM
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Some things are just bad habits that a person falls into and then they try to correct them. I see the same people play the same song week after week for years now and they still have their head stuck behind a music stand.
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Old 03-25-2023, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capefisherman View Post
My apologies to your teacher but I have to disagree with this, with one proviso: If you're looking at your hands to confirm you're in the right place - which of course is a confidence builder for the beginner/intermediate level student - that's OK.....for a little while in the learning process anyway.

BUT....and this is a BIG one: If you're looking at your fretting hand and the neck to anticipate where you're going next, good!!! Anticipating changes is absolutely vital as you move into more complicated music. If you don't believe me, ignore the "star" or featured performer who's most likely not looking at his/her hands because what they are playing they have played many, many times and may be relatively easy. Instead, look at the lead guitarist behind that person. You will immediately notice that this person's eyes don't leave the guitar very often, if at all. This is because they are anticipating the changes and what they want to do with them to embellish the songs, something that will most likely change a number of times with the same chord or sequence at different points in the song.

After teaching private guitar lessons for more than 40 years, to many, many hundreds of students of all ages and levels of experience I can say without hesitation that the biggest challenge for the beginner/intermediate level player is RHYTHM - keeping a steady beat. Without being ready for changes - anticipating them - it's pretty much an ironclad guarantee keeping a steady beat will be close to impossible. And anticipation that includes looking at the fretting hand is part of the process.

Yes, as time passes and you know a particular song better and better through muscle memory and repetition you will need to look at your hands less frequently. But as long as you're looking at them to prepare for the next change or set of changes, not to just confirm you're doing the right thing at that moment in time.... in my opinion anyway!
I don't know what you are apologizing for or disagreeing with. You and my teacher are pretty much on the same page, he just isn't quite so verbose about it. I think he assumes at my age much of your lecture goes without saying, that occasionally you have to look to see where you are at. My point simply is that lately I'm noticing that I play much smoother if I don't sit there watching my hands. I don't think that can be argued.
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Last edited by rllink; 03-25-2023 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 03-25-2023, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rllink View Post
My teacher has been riding me for over a year not to watch my hands. I noticed this week if I keep looking at them they get self conscience because they are being watched and mess up. I'm a not a great player by any means but I'm better if I don't watch. I just thought that was interesting.
Hi rllink
Your teacher obviously thinks that this is a 'thing'.

I un-appologetically disagree with never looking. I support learning to look to land in the right spot, and then work from memory. That just 'happens' if you sing and play. You need to learn to 'not look' some of the time, but look when it's important to hit the right notes and they are in places we've never memorized (like three-note-inversions and solo-lead-lines above the 7th fret).

Have you ever watched a proficient classical player? They watch their hands constantly (I've often joked it's because they don't have dots on the fingerboard).

Someone once said we should learn the neck well enough to not look, but they were only playing cowboy chords.

I told them they should write, arrange and play music which is challenging enough you are forced to look at the neck.

It's a personal choice, but guitarists don't follow the same 'rules' as classical pianists.

I'm not suggesting you stare at the fingerboard. As time goes on you get good enough to 'look away' and then 'look back' when you need to.




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Old 03-25-2023, 10:05 AM
RichardN RichardN is offline
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If you are reading music, or tabs or chord charts you can't look. If you don't do any of those things you still don't want your audience to be looking at the top of your head.

It's not unreasonable to be able to build your skill level to be able to find your way around the fretboard without looking.

However, we have all seen the best guitarists looking down occasionally or even often. And as mentioned previously, a particularly difficult passage may require a peek.
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Old 03-25-2023, 11:02 AM
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My former coach told me that he used to play in front of a mirror.
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Old 03-25-2023, 12:33 PM
Andyrondack Andyrondack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rllink View Post
. My point simply is that lately I'm noticing that I play much smoother if I don't sit there watching my hands. I don't think that can be argued.
Once you have practiced long enough for all the moves to have passed from short term to long term memory, from then on you should be able to play that piece quicker and smoother if you don't pay conscious attention to what your doing with either hand.
Though if the piece involves lots of rapid position changes you bump into the limits of your proprioception, you can work on that if you have the time and inclination, most players seem to just glance at the board when making big jumps. I find that in time proprioception becomes more acurate and I don't have to look so much.
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