How do dimensions affect sound in archtops?

[RLetson]

Nevertheless, there is no guarantee that my particular set of experiences and preferences matches those of someone asking for advice--which is why I always urge hands/ears-on tryouts if at all possible. I've spent enough time with other players to recognize how different our various preferences can be.

For example, my own (which I make a point of identifying in most such conversations) run to Epiphone over Gibson for classic (pre-1950) orchestral archtops--though I've heard Gibsons I'd happily own (Matt Munisteri plays one such) and Epis I didn't care for. Another example: many players dislike the chunky necks reproduced on the Loars, but I find them comfy.

So when asked for advice, once I get beyond factual matters such as materials and workmanship and build formulas, what I have to offer are my own preferences and the reasons for them, along with some reasonably representative recordings that give some indication of various sonic characteristics. Recordings--especially on the internet--are tricky to evaluate, but for those of us with long experience hearing live playing and good professional recordings, it's possible to rough out an idea of what a given instrument "really" sounds like in the hands of a competent player. (That's one reason Jonathan Stout's videos get mentioned so often.)

When the question amounts to "I'm interested in getting an archtop but don't have much experience," there's a point where mere advice has to give way to first-hand experience. And there's no short cut to that--in fact, it might require buying and selling a couple of guitars to get to one that really satisfies the ears and hands. I got lucky--my '46 Broadway fell into my lap 20 years ago, and Tom Crandall passed his first archtop along to me not long after, so I've had the best of the "classic" and "modern" worlds right along. And then up popped an Eastman 805 that occupies some of both territories at a price I couldn't resist. . . . But the deal-clincher in each case was what I heard and felt when I played them. (And I have reluctantly returned guitars that, according to the specs and the sounds of other examples by their builders, should have worked but didn't.)

Addendum: Speaking of Jonathan Stout, here's an excellent example of advice that is rooted in extensive pro-level experience and a set of clearly-labeled preferences. If one's sonic/stylistic tastes coincide with Stout's, his guidance is specific and clearly grounded. And even if one's tastes differ, he still offers a useful map of what to consider.


https://www.campusfive.com/swingguit...er-2019-update

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by pawlowski6132

Tony, I think you are misguided. There are a lot of experts here with years of experience and many people come here looking for their guidance, experience, and wisdom. If you don't want it or can't appreciate it then that's your prerogative but, don't dissuade others as you are doing them a disservice which, it would appear you are not trying to do.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of my post. Yes, there are people here with valuable experience, freely willing to share it. Steve immediately comes to mind for this sub-forum. I would NEVER say to ignore that guidance. At the same time, I would also say that ultimately you have to play the guitar to know if it works for you. In any post on this subject anywhere in these forums, I have repeated this viewpoint and I can't imagine anybody telling somebody to just buy it because I said so.

When Steve DeRosa gives his advice (and I always pay attention to what he posts), he steers you to look at certain makes and models, but I have never understood him to say just buy it. He offers advice on what guitars to consider and solid reasons why. He is but one example of the knowledgeable folks around here, and since he is so knowledgeable about archtops, I am using him as an example that applies to any of these fine people.

There are certain builders/brands of guitars that are almost universally praised in the general acoustic section of the forum and I have had the opportunity to try a number of these over the years when The Podium was still in business. Though these guitars were truly as good as folks said, I often found they were not for me when I actually had the opportunity to try them. Had I instead just ordered one or more of these on line, I would have been sorely disappointed to find that as nice as they were, they just weren't for me for one reason or another.

So whatever you read into my previous post, I hope that this helps clarify things for you a bit more. I seem to have a lot of trouble in these forums with getting my points across in posts, but oddly enough, not over in the jazz guitar forum. I don't understand why, but I hope you will bear with me as we get this misunderstanding sorted out.

Edit: RLetson's post just above this one reflects similar sentiment as I would say. Very simply, you have to personally play the guitars in question to determine what works for you.

Tony

[jersey]

If we're limiting our discussion only to the dimensions of lower bout width and body depth, then all else being equal, as you increase one or both of these dimensions, the frequency response will become more bass-heavy, and somewhat mellower sounding in that sense.

You can't say much about sustain based just on those two dimensions.

If we expand the discussion to other factors, then generally solid wood will result in more sustain than laminate wood. The tradeoff is that if you are plugging in, a solid-wood instrument will be more prone to feedback.

If the archtop has a pickup, then how the pickup is mounted matters. If you have one truly "floating" pickup, then the pickup wont significantly impede the natural acoustic properties of the guitar. However, if the pickup is mounted to the top with screws, this will attenuate the vibration of the wood, and you'll get less unplugged volume and a more "dampened" tone. And if you have two pickups, then you will have even more dampening.

Bracing matters but I'm too ignorant to say how in detail.

Type and gauge of strings is sometimes overlooked in its effect on volume and brightness versus mellowness.