GS mini or new Grand Theater?

[Rpt50]

I'm a huge fan of the GS mini, and it would definitely be the one I would keep if I could have only 1 guitar (take it anywhere, play it anywhere, great sound for a small guitar, etc.). I was definitely interested in the GT, especially since I kept hearing about how easy it plays and the "GS mini on steroids" description.

This weekend I got the chance to play a fresh out of the box GT at GC. On the positive side, it plays as well as any acoustic you are going to find. On the downside, it sounded kind of thin. Although I did not have my mini with me, I didn't feel like it was getting any more bass or volume while playing in the percussive style I use.

I also could not help notice that the GT was the same price as the Yamaha AC5R. If you play the two back-to-back, I can't imagine that anyone would prefer the Taylor if you had $1500 burning a hole in your pocket and are looking for something more comfortable than a dread. The Taylor is not even in the ballpark.

[scotchnspeed]

Originally Posted by Akousticplyr

I wonder if they are targeting the Wee Lowden customers.

It is almost 2 inches bigger than the Wee (huge by guitar standards). They would have had to go 1 inch smaller, not bigger, than the GSM.

[PeteyPower16]

Originally Posted by Rpt50

I'm a huge fan of the GS mini, and it would definitely be the one I would keep if I could have only 1 guitar (take it anywhere, play it anywhere, great sound for a small guitar, etc.). I was definitely interested in the GT, especially since I kept hearing about how easy it plays and the "GS mini on steroids" description.



This weekend I got the chance to play a fresh out of the box GT at GC. On the positive side, it plays as well as any acoustic you are going to find. On the downside, it sounded kind of thin. Although I did not have my mini with me, I didn't feel like it was getting any more bass or volume while playing in the percussive style I use.



I also could not help notice that the GT was the same price as the Yamaha AC5R. If you play the two back-to-back, I can't imagine that anyone would prefer the Taylor if you had $1500 burning a hole in your pocket and are looking for something more comfortable than a dread. The Taylor is not even in the ballpark.

That is an interesting observation! Once I put light strings on my GS mini and it sounded fairly zingy but also diluted and weak, especially in the bass. The GT uses light strings to play “slinky” and I wonder if that trade for feel is at the expense of tone on such a small top? I would wager that mediums on a GT could help even this out for the Yamaha comparison...

[Jeremy]

Having owned a GT for nearly a couple weeks now, I would tell anyone trying to decide between the two to go with the GS Mini; it has 90% of the tone for nearly one third of the price (for the base model). The GT is over hyped, with Taylor marketing it as the second coming of small guitars, and it's anything but.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this line go away before too long. It doesn't have the charm and staying power of the GS Mini, and US assembly and solid back and sides aren't enough to differentiate it from the significantly less expensive and similar sounding GS Mini.

[PeteyPower16]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Having owned a GT for nearly a couple weeks now, I would tell anyone trying to decide between the two to go with the GS Mini; it has 90% of the tone for nearly one third of the price (for the base model). The GT is over hyped, with Taylor marketing it as the second coming of small guitars, and it's anything but.

I wouldn't be surprised to see this line go away before too long. It doesn't have the charm and staying power of the GS Mini, and US assembly and solid back and sides aren't enough to differentiate it from the significantly less expensive and similar sounding GS Mini.

Thanks for your observations here! Would you agree that there is a limit to the tone that you can achieve with a small body size?

It seems ironic that so much attention is paid to tone woods, construction, bracing, etc. These are certainly important when considering tone, but it seems that often the vast amount of tone is driven by a good solid top, a large body size, and the right quality strings. At least that is what the GT “experiment” is leading me to believe.

I guess it is possible to make a large guitar with poor tone, but much harder to make a small guitar with rich tone?

[Taylor Ham]

As for the OP, I'd go for the GS mini and stick with medium gauges for at least the three bass side strings, to drive the top appropriately. Better value than the GT.

Slightly off topic but for V class in general (and the GT as they're really similar)

In my experience the current V class offerings will never have the bass whump that many are looking for, but they may fill in quite a bit after some heavier playing. I've had my 324 V for over a year and it's changed considerably since first getting it. Some may desire still more bass thump, and I occasionally do too. Then, you could take advantage of taylor's neck adjustment system and purposely sand the saddle low, swap the neck shims to point the neck a little lower too, which will give a deeper tone.

[Nahil.R]

Originally Posted by PeteyPower16

Today, Taylor released the new Grand Theater body, which is a “mini” Grand Orchestra. It’s size (in all aspects, from nut width to body size, etc.) is between a GS mini and a Grand Concert.

The GT-e’s cost is more than double the GS mini-e. I expect most of this is due to fabrication in the California factory (rather than Mexico for GS minis), solid back and sides on the GT (urban ash is the only b/s option so far) and appointments/binding, aerocase, and ES2 electronics on the GT.

My questions are as follows. No one can say yet with certainty (new model), but when has that ever stopped us from speculating?

1. Considering body shape only, how different would a “GO mini” (GT) sound compared to a GS mini (spruce top) in terms of bass response and depth/fullness? We might compare the full-size GO and GS to approximate an answer...

2. Will the slightly larger size of a GT (compared to GS mini) lead to a large tone difference? Or is this still just a “mini” guitar with a negligible tone difference?

3. All other things equal, how much different is the sound of a guitar with layered back/sides compared to solid back/sides? Is this the key driving tonal difference more than body shape or size?

I’m sure most folks would say “all these variables matter: you can’t isolate them,” but since no one has a GO in their hands yet and since it is easy for folks on this forum to have opinions, I am interested in the speculations that could be out there.

4. Will the GT become more popular than the GS mini, becoming Taylor’s best-selling small guitar, much like the GS mini did to the baby Taylors? Or does the GS mini still have a place in the lineup due to price and it’s durability with layered construction?

GT (“GO mini”): https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar.../gte-urban-ash

GS mini: https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...ini-e-rosewood

My short answer is go with a GS Mini (spruce top). I have one in layered rosewood back and sides for a few years now and they are wonderfully versatile instruments (although they do come in 23.5 scale, and this may bother some players).

Besides that the instrument has stood the test of time on numerous camping trips from the dry deserts to humid seaside camping trips. The guitar is in perfect shape and sounds very nice to me.

Nahil.

[PeteyPower16]

Originally Posted by Taylor Ham

As for the OP, I'd go for the GS mini and stick with medium gauges for at least the three bass side strings, to drive the top appropriately. Better value than the GT.

Slightly off topic but for V class in general (and the GT as they're really similar)

In my experience the current V class offerings will never have the bass whump that many are looking for, but they may fill in quite a bit after some heavier playing. I've had my 324 V for over a year and it's changed considerably since first getting it. Some may desire still more bass thump, and I occasionally do too. Then, you could take advantage of taylor's neck adjustment system and purposely sand the saddle low, swap the neck shims to point the neck a little lower too, which will give a deeper tone.

Although not the original topic, since I am the OP, I feel entitled to and have to ask: based on physics, how does neck angle lead to a deeper tone? I have heard that higher action can lead to more string vibration room, allowing for stronger strumming, but I am curious of this!

Also, how does the V class result in less bass? Curious to hear your thoughts and whether V class traded intonation up the neck for less fullness down the neck in cowboy chord position.

If your 324 is a koa top, could it simply be that the koa is breaking in?

[NotveryGood]

I never quite got on with the GS Mini, it didnt feel quite "grown up". The GT appeals to me, being just that bit bigger but this time the price is too "grown up"

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by PeteyPower16

Thanks for your observations here! Would you agree that there is a limit to the tone that you can achieve with a small body size?

It seems ironic that so much attention is paid to tone woods, construction, bracing, etc. These are certainly important when considering tone, but it seems that often the vast amount of tone is driven by a good solid top, a large body size, and the right quality strings. At least that is what the GT “experiment” is leading me to believe.

I guess it is possible to make a large guitar with poor tone, but much harder to make a small guitar with rich tone?

Hi,

Yes, I agree there's only so much tone you're going to get out of a small body regardless of how you build it. My issue with the GT is that for all the hype about the new GO-stye body shape and bracing tailored to accentuate the low end, it still sounds thin and jangly and not really a huge step up from the GS Mini. And for $1,399 that's a really tough sell for me. I think the V-Class based architecture is partly to blame here, as it's already pretty weak on low end except for the GP it was originally designed to be paired with.

I've played small guitars that sound really good (the Guild GAD-F20 I previously owned comes to mind) and I don't think the GT is the answer to the solid-wood GS Mini that people were looking for.

[Taylor Ham]

Originally Posted by PeteyPower16

Although not the original topic, since I am the OP, I feel entitled to and have to ask: based on physics, how does neck angle lead to a deeper tone? I have heard that higher action can lead to more string vibration room, allowing for stronger strumming, but I am curious of this!

Also, how does the V class result in less bass? Curious to hear your thoughts and whether V class traded intonation up the neck for less fullness down the neck in cowboy chord position.

If your 324 is a koa top, could it simply be that the koa is breaking in?

The neck angle change mostly to keep the same action spec with a lower saddle. The overall height of strings above the top has a larger effect on the timbre of the guitar.

My 324 is mahogany topped, with Tas Blackwood back and sides. The bass is tight. If the low E string on a scalloped X dread sounds like a huge trampoline that takes seconds to go up and down with a huge whump, the V class GA sounds like a diving board. It throws the note out with a boing. The scalloped X dread sounds amazing alone, but in a loud mix especially unplugged, tighter bass and evenness up the neck may cut better. Same principle behind the GP's although it's every man's personal opinion whether the GA's went too far. It's a different kind of power. Andy Powers has been very consistent with this line of thought ever since he joined taylor, way before V bracing was conceptualized or announced.

I think the way a V class guitar sounds (or any bracing with the grain of the braces mostly parallel with the grain of the top) makes alot of sense when you think of the way a piece of wood wants to bend. The X brace and angled tone bars dont load the braces purely in bending, it also has a torsional effect. This allows a different type of flexibility. If the braces are significantly perpendicular to the top grain in the case of ladder bracing and some gibson jumbos with a really wide X, or significantly parallel to the grain in this case, the top behavior and therefore the tone changes. The main V braces running right through the middle of the lower bout may take significantly more break in to permit the vibrational modes that give a more traditional tone.

Of course, the shape, the bracing and the woods all only guide the tone and the guitar is the sum of its parts.

[PeteyPower16]

This is a really helpful summary, thank you! This is one of the first technical explanations that I’ve heard that explains how bracing could affect both EQ (based on allowed vibrations) and intonation (based on “ordered” vibrations). Also, this helps explain how a guitar can “break in” and sweeten in tone as it ages—assuming that would be due to braces gaining flexibility as they are worked?

Super helpful, thank you for sharing!

[jricc]

Originally Posted by Rpt50

This weekend I got the chance to play a fresh out of the box GT at GC. On the positive side, it plays as well as any acoustic you are going to find. On the downside, it sounded kind of thin. Although I did not have my mini with me, I didn't feel like it was getting any more bass or volume while playing in the percussive style I use.

Agree 100%...I said something similar in my review a couple of weeks back... had one for 24 hours and loved the way it played...I thought the mids were kind of missing...
so I returned it.

[PeteyPower16]

Originally Posted by Taylor Ham

As for the OP, I'd go for the GS mini and stick with medium gauges for at least the three bass side strings, to drive the top appropriately. Better value than the GT.

It is an interesting suggestion to mix and match string gauges to change tone on a mini guitar: GS, GT, or otherwise. I see that Elixir effectively offers hybrid combinations between “lights” (12-53) and “mediums” (13-56):
https://www.elixirstrings.com/guitar...anoweb-coating

-The “light-medium” (12-56) option is “light” treble strings and “medium” bass strings.

-The “HD light” (13-53) option is “medium” treble strings, a transition G string, and “light” bass strings. I believe Taylor used to put these on their GA’s but then moved to true lights.

Is the light-medium combination what you are referring to as a modification from the default setup of mediums on the mini?

-Do you think that would balance both driven top richness (not diluted) and also some zingy, more resonant high end like light strings?

-Do you expect that light treble strings on a lower-tension mini will cause a lot of feet buzz? Affect intonation (do lighter strings bend out of intonation easier, or would less tension be required to fret them, for an effect of better intonation)?

-Does a hybrid sting set feel weird to play (different tension across the different strings), or is it not perceivable?

If you have experience with this, I’d be curious to hear!

[tiffer]

Have to agree with rpt. I tried a GT at GC this past Thursday, it was extremely comfortable to play, but...it just sounded weak. I felt the mini was by far the better buy. For what Taylor is asking for GT I guess I expected more.