Need a Pickup for Loud Bands and Quiet Coffeehouses

[ric4682]

Sorry in advance for the long post, but I want to provide as much information as possible to get the most accurate answers I can. Thank you!

I recently sold the two acoustics I had that I only liked to get one I love and settled on a Farida LG style, but it doesn’t have a pickup.
I have a couple of issues.

First, I don’t want to mess the acoustic sound of the guitar when I’m just playing it at home because it’s sound is the whole reason I bought it. If adding the pickup is going to have a very minimal effect on the sound and responsiveness (5% or less) than that’s okay. I’m not an audiophile, and I’m not the most seasoned acoustic player, but I know a good sounding and resonant instrument when I hear one.

Second, I need it to work within a couple of different environments. One is me playing singer/songwriter type shows or open mics by myself where I’d like a decent tone that won’t feed back too easily. The other is playing acoustic through a pedalboard with a drummer and bass player. So I’m thinking I would need a soundhole pickup for this second situation to avoid feedback at louder volume.


I haven’t used a ton of different systems, but here’s what I have experience with:
-An old DeArmond 130 soundhole pickup from the 80’s or 90’s that has the typical uneven response and metallic tone of a lower end mag.

-DTar/Seymour Duncan Wavelength. This one is my favorite. All of the dynamics and touch responsiveness of a UST with none of the quack and harshness. I would just buy this today and be done with it, but I’ve heard that due to the softer material the pickup is made of it can have a noticeable effect on the unplugged tone of the guitar. Is this the case?

-Shadow Dual system that came on an older Epiphone Masterbilt. It had a tiny cute little mag soundhole pickup that just fitted to the end of the fingerboard, and then a nice sounding UST that you could blend between. It’s been a while but I remember really liking this system and thinking it was very natural sounding.

-I’ve listened to many many demos of different systems and decided I don’t love the thump and woodiness of the K&K by itself, plus I head it isn’t the most feedback resistant.

The Shadow system seems like it would be the best of both worlds and maybe the best thing for my situation. So I found the company that makes that system:

https://shadowelectronics.com/collec...ts/sh-sonic-dp

The only issue is that it seems the wire coming from the mag pickup comes out of the bottom, and the fingerboard of my guitar stops at least half an inch from the soundhole and I don’t want to cut into the top or anything like that.

I’m probably 90/10 for flatpick/fingers and I don’t play particularly hard. Let’s say my budget is $300 and I don’t think I want to mess with a dual source that needs to be mixed with outboard gear. What do I need? Dimarzio Black Angel? M80? Anthem?

[Goat Mick]

I have a Baggs M1 in my Farida OT-22w and it works great for that guitar. Feedback isn't an issue at all and it gives a nice clean acoustic tone when amplified.

[63telemaster]

Welcome

Black Angel is your best solution

[Petty1818]

I would say Anthem or Fishman UST with Aura. The Dtar Wavelength is the Lr Baggs Element, which is used as part of the Anthem. Dtar just has an 18v preamp to limit the quack. If you like that tone, you will most likely love the Anthem. Honestly, the Anthem can be played on loud stages without any issues. At least I have never had an issue with a drummer and loud monitors.

[ric4682]

Originally Posted by Goat Mick

I have a Baggs M1 in my Farida OT-22w and it works great for that guitar. Feedback isn't an issue at all and it gives a nice clean acoustic tone when amplified.

The Faridas are nice! I’m loving it so far. I haven’t found anything in the price range that beats it.

[ric4682]

Originally Posted by 63telemaster

Welcome

Black Angel is your best solution

Do you have experience with it? Are you using just the soundhole or the piezo as well? The video demos I heard of it all kind of had this plasticy artificial sounding hype in the high end.

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I would say Anthem or Fishman UST with Aura. The Dtar Wavelength is the Lr Baggs Element, which is used as part of the Anthem. Dtar just has an 18v preamp to limit the quack. If you like that tone, you will most likely love the Anthem. Honestly, the Anthem can be played on loud stages without any issues. At least I have never had an issue with a drummer and loud monitors.

That’s what I’ve heard and the Anthem is definitely on the radar because of that. Does having the Element in there effect the sound of the guitar unplugged though?

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by ric4682

The Faridas are nice! I’m loving it so far. I haven’t found anything in the price range that beats it.

They are a LOT of guitar for the money. I'm very happy with mine.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by ric4682

That’s what I’ve heard and the Anthem is definitely on the radar because of that. Does having the Element in there effect the sound of the guitar unplugged though?

Opinions tend to vary on this. I mean guys like Ron Block, Brad Paisley, California Guitar Trio etc. use the Anthem and those guys know tone. I think if it was that dramatic, they would notice. I thought I noticed a change when I used the Anthem in my guitar but it had more to do with switching to a bone saddle as well.

[ric4682]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Opinions tend to vary on this. I mean guys like Ron Block, Brad Paisley, California Guitar Trio etc. use the Anthem and those guys know tone. I think if it was that dramatic, they would notice. I thought I noticed a change when I used the Anthem in my guitar but it had more to do with switching to a bone saddle as well.

That’s a good point, I would absolutely say that all those guys know good tone. I would also say that they can probably afford other guitars for unplugged use that probably don’t have the Anthem attached.

Either way, it’s still a contender.

[Methos1979]

I agree that a mag soundhole pup would be good for you and the ones you named are all contenders. I recently went from several you mention to the K&K Double Helix Solo. Great sound, neat tone switch which is very helpful to change between strumming and fingers and passive so no battery. I went through the M80, Black Angel and Scherlter before I found this one. I wrote a long detailed review you can read here:

K&K Double Helix Solo review - long and detailed

[jseth]

Originally Posted by ric4682

Do you have experience with it? Are you using just the soundhole or the piezo as well? The video demos I heard of it all kind of had this plasticy artificial sounding hype in the high end.



That’s what I’ve heard and the Anthem is definitely on the radar because of that. Does having the Element in there effect the sound of the guitar unplugged though?

In my case, with both my handmade 6 and 12 string Mark Angus guitars, the answer was, unfortunately, YES! The Anthem absolutely altered the volume and tone of the 6 string, especially, after being installed... if you care about the unplugged sound of your guitar a lot, don't do put the Anthem in it. If you gig A LOT and use the guitar primarily plugged in to something? Then I could see the Anthem in there... having had it in my stage guitars for nearly a decade, I'm not sure it would do what you want through a pedal board with a loud band... that seems more like a mag soundhole pickup to me...

The Shadow pickups have been around for a LONG time, and their reputation is solid... like Sunrise pickups, I know several pros who have had Shadow pickups in their guitars for decades... and they ain't changing them anytime soon! That says something right there...

You are asking a tough bill to fill, to cover both those angles of your acoustic guitar's amplified tone... I understand why, but you need to know that you may have to cut a few corners to get it all in one pickup...

Let us know what you end up doing!

[AeroUSA]

I would get the Anthem (the full not the SL).

[63telemaster]

Originally Posted by ric4682

Do you have experience with it? Are you using just the soundhole or the piezo as well? The video demos I heard of it all kind of had this plasticy artificial sounding hype in the high end.

Just the soundhole BA.

Up until March this year I was playing a D28 full time in a touring theatre show in large venues with a full band. Most of us used IEM but the keyboard player ran very loud monitors and I stood between him and a big hitting drummer. I used an M1A, and an M80 both of which caused problems and had to have a LOT of eq to make usable. The body sensing "feature" just made everything so difficult.

When I switched to a Black Angel I had none of these problems and I needed minimum eq tweaking to get a really nice sound. I used an HX Stomp to bump up the gain and parametric eq to dial out approx -3.5db at 490Hz and 4.5kHz with low cut at 170Hz and high cut at 12kHz. The sound man would obviously still check his end per venue but no more headaches for him.

I would say for coffee house gigs a BA would need even less tweaking depending on what you plan to run it through and what kind of sound you're after.....and only you will care!

[Petty1818]

Another option would be to install a Matrix UST, which doesn't impact the tone and then try something like the Aura, Tonedexter or the newer Voiceprint. I am hoping that the Voiceprint makes it even more possibe/easy to use a UST and still get a great/natural tone.

[ric4682]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I agree that a mag soundhole pup would be good for you and the ones you named are all contenders. I recently went from several you mention to the K&K Double Helix Solo. Great sound, neat tone switch which is very helpful to change between strumming and fingers and passive so no battery. I went through the M80, Black Angel and Scherlter before I found this one. I wrote a long detailed review you can read here:

K&K Double Helix Solo review - long and detailed

I didn’t realize K&K had a mag like that. I’ll have to check it out!

Originally Posted by jseth

In my case, with both my handmade 6 and 12 string Mark Angus guitars, the answer was, unfortunately, YES! The Anthem absolutely altered the volume and tone of the 6 string, especially, after being installed... if you care about the unplugged sound of your guitar a lot, don't do put the Anthem in it. If you gig A LOT and use the guitar primarily plugged in to something? Then I could see the Anthem in there... having had it in my stage guitars for nearly a decade, I'm not sure it would do what you want through a pedal board with a loud band... that seems more like a mag soundhole pickup to me...

The Shadow pickups have been around for a LONG time, and their reputation is solid... like Sunrise pickups, I know several pros who have had Shadow pickups in their guitars for decades... and they ain't changing them anytime soon! That says something right there...

You are asking a tough bill to fill, to cover both those angles of your acoustic guitar's amplified tone... I understand why, but you need to know that you may have to cut a few corners to get it all in one pickup...

Let us know what you end up doing!

That’s exactly the type of feedback I’m looking for, but unfortunately not the answer I was hoping to hear. It doesn’t sound like I’ll be putting the anthem in as I’ve read too many posts like this one saying it alters the sound of the guitar in a fairly noticeable way. I’m glad that Shadow has been around a while and has a good reputation. That Shadow system I linked above is still looking like the best option if I can get the pickups fitted correctly.

I do realize this is a tough ask of any pickup system, but so far I already have suggestions I hadn’t considered so it’s been worth it to at least ask the good people!

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I would get the Anthem (the full not the SL).

Do you have the Anthem? If so, what type of guitar is it in? Did you have it installed after you already had the guitar, or did it come installed?

Originally Posted by 63telemaster

Just the soundhole BA.

Up until March this year I was playing a D28 full time in a touring theatre show in large venues with a full band. Most of us used IEM but the keyboard player ran very loud monitors and I stood between him and a big hitting drummer. I used an M1A, and an M80 both of which caused problems and had to have a LOT of eq to make usable. The body sensing "feature" just made everything so difficult.

When I switched to a Black Angel I had none of these problems and I needed minimum eq tweaking to get a really nice sound. I used an HX Stomp to bump up the gain and parametric eq to dial out approx -3.5db at 490Hz and 4.5kHz with low cut at 170Hz and high cut at 12kHz. The sound man would obviously still check his end per venue but no more headaches for him.

I would say for coffee house gigs a BA would need even less tweaking depending on what you plan to run it through and what kind of sound you're after.....and only you will care!

That’s good to know! The M80 is definitely near the top of my list so I’ll have to move the BA up there as well. Is the sound just more neutral than the M80? I’ve read that the M80 has a problematic midrange that’s tough to dial in.

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Another option would be to install a Matrix UST, which doesn't impact the tone and then try something like the Aura, Tonedexter or the newer Voiceprint. I am hoping that the Voiceprint makes it even more possibe/easy to use a UST and still get a great/natural tone.

Hmmm, I don’t know anything about this type of set up so I’ll have to look into it!