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  #31  
Old 03-16-2020, 02:02 PM
catdaddy catdaddy is offline
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Originally Posted by DCCougar View Post
Whoa, dude, that's one heck of a lot of takes! Of course, as others have said, it depends on whether you're recording for "friends and family" or you're putting out an album and hoping to make some income from it.

I haven't noticed anyone mentioning "cutting and pasting." I'll often cut 3 or 4 tracks of a particular part; there will be some good sections in there, and maybe a verse or two I can do without. I'll cut and paste the good sections and of course leave out the poor sections, thus constructing a good final "take" for that part. I use cubase elements, starting with a set rhythm track at a particular bpm, and you want to set the cubase project to that bpm so your cuts are clean. I've been into recording for decades (not so much the technical part, but the player part). Current home recording technology is fantastic!

DCCougar example (original)
Some of my recordings are for my own gratification, others are for paid/professional projects. Regardless, I'm not inclined to "comp" takes or cut and paste other than on vocal tracks. I prefer the feel and continuity of a complete take on an instrument track. I tend not to outsource or collaborate with other players so I end up playing a lot of instruments other than guitar, at which I'm not so proficient. As a consequence, depending on the instrument and the part I'm attempting to record, the number of takes can add up.
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  #32  
Old 03-18-2020, 11:28 AM
slewis slewis is offline
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Yeah, I get it!

The most compelling bit of philosophy I've ever seen on this topic (and for others) is this:

Perfection is the enemy of the good.

In other words (for me) -- sure, set some standards, but make them realistic, and (for me) don't end up with a lifetime collection of just a handful of "close to perfect" original creations when you could end up with many dozens or more of good creations. I doubt any of us here are out to win Most Perfect Recording of the Millennium awards. I'll be happy if I can leave some simply good stuff behind.
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2020, 11:49 AM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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I've been doing home recording since 1970. As my playing and recording skills have gotten better over the years my recordings have also. But, I've never made a perfect recording, and I don't expect I ever will. I merely try my best, and have come to accept that something less than perfection will result.

Have I done 10 takes to try to "nail" that lead part? Sure. 20 takes? You bet. 50 takes? Yup, a few times. More than 50? Probably. But, there is a point when I realize I've captured my best, and that's where it ends. How do I know when that happens? Usually my body tells me. My hands/wrists become fatigued. My mind tells me. I lose my ability to totally concentrate on playing, and I think more about anticipating failure than anticipating success. And finally, I realize that take #30 was better than any take from #31 on.

In short, my attitude is to work hard but not obsessively, be realistic and reasonable about my abilities, and to view perfection as something I'll leave for those with far greater gifts than my own.
Very well said. Thank you.
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  #34  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:49 AM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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Fascinating topic..

I find that I can be completely on top of a piece and able to play it with my eyes closed, but the dreaded red light leads to mistakes. In most cases I can get warmed up and be able to get a passable take within 30 mins but if not then the frustration builds and I get past the point of being likely to get a take I am happy with, so rarely last longer than 1h.

I am never happy with the take on re-listening as it rarely compares favourably with my reference track (albeit these are always much more accomplished players) and always has some mistakes that appear glaring to me. I have however adopted the “good enough” approach and appreciate that this is a journey.

I have also found that the less intrusive I make the process, the more likely I am to get a clean take - so a simple Zoom on the desk in front of me with a Go-pro on the headstock is much easier than 2 mics and a camera with a light in place (despite the results being lower quality) so I end up trading overall recording quality for better playing and less mistakes.
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  #35  
Old 03-24-2020, 05:04 AM
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I find that I can be completely on top of a piece and able to play it with my eyes closed, but the dreaded red light leads to mistakes.


Hi! As a guitarist who became a session player, red light fever is something that has affected me as well. As a recording engineer/producer I have observed the phenomenon from "the other side of the glass." I've actually written up a short essay about it and you can find that HERE.

Bob
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  #36  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:04 AM
sevargnhoj sevargnhoj is offline
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Nice article Bob and lots of interesting responses.

I home record for feedback for myself and to share what I'm working on with friends who have an interest. The repetition part is what has helped me the most with "red light fever".

I've also gone through periods where I would hit the record button and forget it. I found this to take a lot of the pressure off and if I was really feeling it, something good would come of it that I could use later.

I was playing with a buddy a couple of months ago and started the recorder while he wasn't watching. We nailed the performance and he laughed and said, "Too bad you didn't record that!" Joe Walshed him good that time, I did.
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  #37  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post


Hi! As a guitarist who became a session player, red light fever is something that has affected me as well. As a recording engineer/producer I have observed the phenomenon from "the other side of the glass." I've actually written up a short essay about it and you can find that HERE.

Bob


That’s a great essay Bob - loved it and totally resonates with me!
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  #38  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sevargnhoj View Post
I was playing with a buddy a couple of months ago and started the recorder while he wasn't watching. We nailed the performance and he laughed and said, "Too bad you didn't record that!" Joe Walshed him good that time, I did.
Always. Be. Recording.

I think some of the frustration comes with constantly stopping and repeating takes. Start recording--mess up--stop--stop the recording--hit delete--get yourself reset--hit record again. Rinse and repeat.

That's where digital, at home, can be a blessing. No tape cost, no time limits. Hit "Record" once at the start, and let it roll.

Mess up? Just keep going. You can comp it later and use the good part.
Mess up? Just keep going, get your groove, and when you finish the piece, play it again.
Mess up? Stop and start over, but don't worry about the DAW, just take a breath and start playing again, until you get a take you like.

It saves the aggravation of contstantly having to fiddle with your recording gear, which just adds to the your annnoyances.
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  #39  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:47 AM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
Hi! As a guitarist who became a session player, red light fever is something that has affected me as well. As a recording engineer/producer I have observed the phenomenon from "the other side of the glass." I've actually written up a short essay about it and you can find that HERE.
Thanks for this.

"What ended red light fever for me was repetition and recording myself. Just doing it... over and over."

The same is true for performing. I only got back into this a couple of years ago, and it's taken most of that time, playing open mics once or twice a week, to get over it. I'm now much more relaxed on stage, but I still occasionally get distracted and forget where I am in a song.
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  #40  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:25 AM
Wrighty Wrighty is offline
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Originally Posted by Chipotle View Post
Always. Be. Recording.



I think some of the frustration comes with constantly stopping and repeating takes. Start recording--mess up--stop--stop the recording--hit delete--get yourself reset--hit record again. Rinse and repeat.



That's where digital, at home, can be a blessing. No tape cost, no time limits. Hit "Record" once at the start, and let it roll.



Mess up? Just keep going. You can comp it later and use the good part.

Mess up? Just keep going, get your groove, and when you finish the piece, play it again.

Mess up? Stop and start over, but don't worry about the DAW, just take a breath and start playing again, until you get a take you like.



It saves the aggravation of contstantly having to fiddle with your recording gear, which just adds to the your annnoyances.


That’s as good point - I did think about just letting it roll and avoiding the start stop nature of messing up..
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  #41  
Old 03-24-2020, 12:58 PM
phcorrigan phcorrigan is offline
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Mess up? Just keep going. You can comp it later and use the good part.
My editing skills are not to the point where I can cut and paste, so I'm still in the "start over" camp.
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  #42  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:18 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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My editing skills are not to the point where I can cut and paste, so I'm still in the "start over" camp.
Due to my singing and playing skills, my editing skills developed quickly.
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  #43  
Old 03-24-2020, 01:23 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Originally Posted by Chipotle View Post
Mess up? Just keep going. You can comp it later and use the good part.
Mess up? Just keep going, get your groove, and when you finish the piece, play it again.
Mess up? Stop and start over, but don't worry about the DAW, just take a breath and start playing again, until you get a take you like.
In movie score and other orchestral recording sessions, it often works like this:

Mess up? Back up 4 bars, start from there, and keep going until there's another problem. The edits get made during the hourly break.

I do the same thing when it's just me and a guitar.
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  #44  
Old 03-25-2020, 03:52 PM
Chipotle Chipotle is offline
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Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
Mess up? Back up 4 bars, start from there, and keep going until there's another problem. The edits get made during the hourly break.

I do the same thing when it's just me and a guitar.
Yeah, that's my workflow often as well, though sometimes it behooves you to keep going and fix the middle part later.

I posted a sample of one of my comps in post #30 and you'll see the takes conform to the "play to a mistake, back up a bit and start from there" pattern.
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  #45  
Old 03-25-2020, 08:50 PM
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I don't do it enough, but there are times when I will record 2 or 3 times a week, then delete everything I recorded. It helps fight the red light jitters.
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