Hands are too small, fingers too short?

[RamóN]

Originally Posted by Broadus

There are certainly the documented horror stories, but there are plenty of instances in which the desire was within the child. One of my sons-in-law is a fabulous pianist and was one of those child prodigies. His parents never pushed him, and his older brother never learned any music as far as I know.




The only thing you said that I agree with is that the girl is "indeed impressive."

How do we know the child was "obligated to do such a show for grown ups"? She may love the attention and applause. How many kids are involved in athletics not only because they love the sport but they also love being seen and applauded by the fans? And yes, there are plenty of kids involved in athletics who are encouraged/forced by their parents and couldn't care less about the sport.

When I read the clause "when she doesnt even understands what she is doing," I couldn't help but smile. That probably describes at least half the members of AGF, and I'm in that half, when we hold a guitar.

Last, how do you know that "there is no way that a child of that age would have the desire to develop such a technical level"? Like I said, I have a son-in-law who did. It's unusual, to be sure, but not without precedent. Universal negatives are hard to prove.

Bill

Hey, first im not saying im right im just giving a point of view so i welcome the discussion. What i meant is that such level of technical development means a level of cognitive demand that is not in par with a child emotional development at that age. Why i know that thats something not good for a child? because i have been working as a childrens musictherapist in a public hospital for 7 years now and besides what i listen in my work with children, there are lots of investigations that prove that point. You could read Daniel stern or john bowlby for example if you are interested.

I dont think its the same thing that an adult understands or not something he or she does as in the case of a child, a child is always more restricted in their possibility to chose between something they want to do and something an adult make them do. Its a thin line but there is a difference.

I know there are points of view were most people would think that a child with skill and inteligence is a "happy" child because everyone will congratulate him. But as i see it self satisfaction and a healthy growth is not achieved by attention and fitting in social circles, it has more to do with discovering as much of the world as possible developing your emotional and cognitive aspects at the same time i.e. you learn as you feel motivated to learn. In the case of a child she may have the desire to make music and to play a guitar, but to reach that technical level her desire has more to do with pleasing adults than with the joy of playing and a child should not be worried about what adults want, it should be the other way around. Besides thats a skill that most certainly only lets her interact with adults not with other children of her age. What happens if she decides to stop playing the guitar tomorrow? will her parents let her do that? i bet they wont.

As i said above its just a point of view, i dont know anything about that particular child so she may indeed be different of what i think, but in my experience its has more to do with what i said.

Last thing, english is not my home language and this is a complex subject so if my explanation is unclear please let me know because i had some trouble finding words for certain ideas.

[Broadus]

Originally Posted by RamóN

. . . .

Last thing, english is not my home language and this is a complex subject so if my explanation is unclear please let me know because i had some trouble finding words for certain ideas.

Your English is just fine. Thanks for adding your perspective.

My basic point above is that I am reluctant to make universal statements. I really don't know what's going on with that child and her situation. Perhaps my son-in-law is an exception, but he was technically exceptional at an early age and loved music. He still does.

Bill

[Bingoccc]

While watching this yet again I noticed this video pop up at the end. I think it reveals more of the high level of discipline involved here. I don't think she was alone in class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtjvVgNMPtI

[TJE]

Originally Posted by Guyute

Considering the food supply in North Korea, that girl is probably 18 years old.

ROFL This is so true

[D. Churchland]

Originally Posted by Dancinbaer

Actually, watch again, at one point when her playing slows down she does get a smile on her face. When the music speeds up again she gets that serious look again. At times she even sways with the music indicating she is "feeling" the music.

I'm amazed at how focused children like her can be when it comes to playing.

As a kids music teacher for my entire guitar playing career, it's fake and there's something weird about it. call it an intuition but I don't feel like there's any real sincere joy coming from her face.

There are several other videos from the same source and they all seem to have the same thing, it's just weird

[mesa]

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

As a kids music teacher for my entire guitar playing career, it's fake and there's something weird about it. call it an intuition but I don't feel like there's any real sincere joy coming from her face.

There are several other videos from the same source and they all seem to have the same thing, it's just weird

Fake and weird because she lives in a different culture than ours?
Look down through Dan's videos and see if it looks like there is sincere joy on his face.

http://www.youtube.com/user/dancholl.../9/N_Vqc62dKWg

[kirkham13]

Magnificent- she plays better than I ever will.... and even has a percussive flair to her jam. I think she will take much pleasure from her skill as a guitarist, and we should keep a lookout for her- if only we all had good fundamentals and confidence before we knew what we wanted to be-

[D. Churchland]

Originally Posted by mesa

Fake and weird because she lives in a different culture than ours?
Look down through Dan's videos and see if it looks like there is sincere joy on his face.

You know it is possible for someone to disagree with you, don't put words in my mouth, I don't have anything against her or her playing ability, she's phenomenal we all play differently but I just can't shake the fact that something about it is odd.

I don't have a problem with another culture, you put that in my mouth, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

And Dan's videos, I've been a fan of Dans for a long time, I don't see what relevance that has to anything. (which means it has no relevance to anything)

[mesa]

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

You know it is possible for someone to disagree with you, don't put words in my mouth, I don't have anything against her or her playing ability, she's phenomenal we all play differently but I just can't shake the fact that something about it is odd.

I don't have a problem with another culture, you put that in my mouth, that has absolutely nothing to do with it.

And Dan's videos, I've been a fan of Dans for a long time, I don't see what relevance that has to anything. (which means it has no relevance to anything)

Wow Will, you seem a bit edgy today. I have no problem at all with someone disagreeing with me. And I surely didn't put words in your mouth! You are the one who said "it's fake and there's something weird about it"

My point (and what I meant) was maybe (the oddness you see) is because of the cultural differences of our countries. I didn't for a second think you were questioning her ability.

You also said "call it an intuition but I don't feel like there's any real sincere joy coming from her face".

My point (with Dan and this child) was you really can't say a person doesn't have joy in playing because of their facial expression.

[larryb]

Originally Posted by RamóN

Its indeed impressive and i dont want to be an idiot but Its quite sad in fact that a child should be obligated to do such show for grown ups to be amazed when she doesnt even understands what she is doing and i dont have to say there is no way that a child of that age would have the desire to develop such technical level.

Mozart? Beethoven?

[D. Churchland]

Originally Posted by mesa

Wow Will, you seem a bit edgy today. I have no problem at all with someone disagreeing with me. And I surely didn't put words in your mouth! You are the one who said "it's fake and there's something weird about it"

My point (and what I meant) was maybe (the oddness you see) is because of the cultural differences of our countries. I didn't for a second think you were questioning her ability.

You also said "call it an intuition but I don't feel like there's any real sincere joy coming from her face".

My point (with Dan and this child) was you really can't say a person doesn't have joy in playing because of their facial expression.

I'm not edgy but you seemed to be offended by the fact that I questioned the performance, you shouldn't be offended by that because there's nothing to be offended about. You seem to be accusing me of cultural hate, that's what it reads like when you say "Fake and weird because she lives in a different culture?" Culture has squat to do with it. Having lived in many places (Antigua, Barbados, Guam, and visited many more) I am fully aware of cultural differences.

I said it was weird because it just is, she's a great guitar player but her expressions and movements just seem odd, by odd I mean that they seem forced, like someone is telling her to do it. If I closed my eyes and listened I would never be able to tell her playing from an adult's. that says alot about her musical maturity but it may just be that she's a savant or something, her emotional expressions just seem forced.

I'm not dissing the playing like you said, I just take issue with the fact that I have witnessed more than one occasion where child abuse was a factor in learning something. I'm not accusing anyone but forced expressions and the like (in my experience) are telling signs of it.

I have no wish to continue this argument, and I won't let it turn into a political discussion so I'm ending here

[mesa]

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

I'm not edgy but you seemed to be offended by the fact that I questioned the performance, you shouldn't be offended by that because there's nothing to be offended about. You seem to be accusing me of cultural hate, that's what it reads like when you say "Fake and weird because she lives in a different culture?" Culture has squat to do with it. Having lived in many places (Antigua, Barbados, Guam, and visited many more) I am fully aware of cultural differences.

I said it was weird because it just is, she's a great guitar player but her expressions and movements just seem odd, by odd I mean that they seem forced, like someone is telling her to do it. If I closed my eyes and listened I would never be able to tell her playing from an adult's. that says alot about her musical maturity but it may just be that she's a savant or something, her emotional expressions just seem forced.

I'm not dissing the playing like you said, I just take issue with the fact that I have witnessed more than one occasion where child abuse was a factor in learning something. I'm not accusing anyone but forced expressions and the like (in my experience) are telling signs of it.

I have no wish to continue this argument, and I won't let it turn into a political discussion so I'm ending here

your argument seems to be with yourself...have a nice weekend!

[Dancinbaer]

Here is a kid, 12 years old, I had the honor and pleasure of meeting personally. This was at Steve Kaufman's Acoustic Kamp this past June.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMrceS6Lb0M

He also plays electric guitar, piano and sax. Very cool kid. Talking with him is like talking with any other 12 year old. Well maybe not, he wasn't shy or had an attitude. Just very open with a witty sense of humor. Also spoke with his mother. Clayton has been playing since he was seven and thoroughly enjoys playing music. According to his mother they do not push him to play. They do at times need to remind him to put the guitar away and do his school work.

[Broadus]

Originally Posted by Dancinbaer

Here is a kid, 12 years old, I had the honor and pleasure of meeting personally. This was at Steve Kaufman's Acoustic Kamp this past June.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMrceS6Lb0M

He also plays electric guitar, piano and sax. Very cool kid. Talking with him is like talking with any other 12 year old. Well maybe not, he wasn't shy or had an attitude. Just very open with a witty sense of humor. Also spoke with his mother. Clayton has been playing since he was seven and thoroughly enjoys playing music. According to his mother they do not push him to play. They do at times need to remind him to put the guitar away and do his school work.

Incredible. Thanks for sharing.

Bill

[D. Churchland]

Originally Posted by Dancinbaer

Here is a kid, 12 years old, I had the honor and pleasure of meeting personally. This was at Steve Kaufman's Acoustic Kamp this past June.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMrceS6Lb0M

He also plays electric guitar, piano and sax. Very cool kid. Talking with him is like talking with any other 12 year old. Well maybe not, he wasn't shy or had an attitude. Just very open with a witty sense of humor. Also spoke with his mother. Clayton has been playing since he was seven and thoroughly enjoys playing music. According to his mother they do not push him to play. They do at times need to remind him to put the guitar away and do his school work.

Now that's talent! I had a student like him once, only my student was a savant and couldn't really speak well, but man he enjoyed his guitar playing. And this young man really seems to enjoy it very much as well! I look forward to seeing how he matures in the next years