Guitar Tab and a capo

[Plexiprs]

I've noticed that almost all guitar tablature that uses a capo treats the capo as if it is now the guitar's nut and the fret numbers are relative to the capo, not the actual fret position on the fingerboard. I find this complicating the playing process as when you a piece that shows a capo on the third fret and the tab indicates a 5th string "5", it really means the 8th fret of the guitar.

To me this means you have to do the math in your head while playing, and you inherent ability to navigate the fretboard is lost.

I've checked the tablature software I have, Finale, TablEdit, Guitar Pro, and PowerTab and they all treat capoing this way.

My preference would be to indicate where to place the capo, and then use the fret numbers as if the capo was not present, EXCEPT for any notes that are played open. Those would show as "0". I've yet to find a work around in making a tab MY way.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this, or am I the only that has this problem?

[Jim Tozier]

Originally posted by Plexiprs
I've noticed that almost all guitar tablature that uses a capo treats the capo as if it is now the guitar's nut

If you think of it this way (capo=nut), then it should be fairly easy to read most tab . . . it's just like playing a shorter scaled instrument. I'll admit that sometimes the fret markers can throw you off when using a capo (which is one reason I prefer a blank fretboard), and notes played on higher frets can be tricky. With a little practice, though, you get used to it.

I can think of two reasons why the current method would be more convenient than what you described. One is recognizing chord shapes/patterns, scales, etc. For example, with a capo on the 5th fret, a "C" chord shape (which would actually be an "F" in pitch) would be x32010, which we would all recognize immediately. Using your proposed system, it would appear as x87060, and if we just used the actual fret played for all notes--including the capoed fret--we'd have x87565. It takes a little longer to see that either of these are a "C" shape. Does that make sense?

The other reason it's done the current way is to make transposing easy. By writing the tab as if the capo is the new nut, you can play in any key just by moving the fret the capo is on. None of the numbers change. Using your system, all the numbers would change, making transposition tedious. Since I regularly change keys--to suit my vocal range, to make the song easier for another instrument to play along, or simply to give it a different feel--I find the current system to be very convenient.

Hope that helps . . .

[Plexiprs]

Your answer makes perfect sense Jim, but I think my problem is that tablature was a "second language" of music for me. I discovered that when I read a tab I am translating it standard notation and playing the notes. I don't think about 3rd string 7th fret I think D and my hand goes there. With the capo-tabs I find myself reading the standard notation, if its available.

What great things we ponder at 5:00 a.m. on a Sunday !!

[MichaelM]

Originally posted by Plexiprs
I discovered that when I read a tab I am translating it standard notation and playing the notes. I don't think about 3rd string 7th fret I think D and my hand goes there. With the capo-tabs I find myself reading the standard notation, if its available.

Maybe you need a program that writes the keys above the tab? Or does it translet that for you too? Hmm....well as I am doing with a book that has tab printed in a very funny way (it has SEVEN lines and the notes are in the spaces between the lines rather than on them) you can always write them out by hand!!!! (Defeats the purpose of the program I know!)

[Jim Tozier]

Originally posted by Plexiprs
I don't think about 3rd string 7th fret I think D and my hand goes there. With the capo-tabs I find myself reading the standard notation, if its available.

OK . . . I can see how this would make things a little more complicated. If the standard notation is written as if there were no capo (i.e., the actual notes of the C-shape chord with capo 5 mentioned above are C, E, G, C, E) rather than the actual pitch (F, A, C#, F, A), it's still only a matter of visualizing the capo as the nut, and playing a shorter-scaled instrument. Still takes some getting used to, though.

Originally posted by MichaelM
Hmm....well as I am doing with a book that has tab printed in a very funny way (it has SEVEN lines and the notes are in the spaces between the lines rather than on them)

I also have some books with the weird tab--numbers in the spaces rather than on the lines (which seems to be how a lot of the stuff from Stefan Grossman is done). It took me a while to adjust to that!

[Pipsqueak]

I'm ALMOST used to seeing tabs written relative to the capo.

And I actually do look at the fret markers for help...even when tabs are written this way.

I will agree...it is a very analytical way of thinking while playing music.....and most of us probably don't want to think that way!

Now the 7-line tabs.....that would throw me off too....I need them on the line for now.

Sheesh...we need an international standard or something!

[RRtalpkr]

I think that Plexiprs brought up a good subject. I write Guitar Books & use a Capo. When I'm assuming that the Capo is in place (usually C2), I don't use Tablature but write arrangements in traditional notation. He's right in stating that there seem to be no Tab Editors that deal with the issue. My solution is not a good one, but perhaps better than nothing. Answers, anyone?

Dan (Rio Rancho, NM)

[Plexiprs]

Add to the problem RRtalpkr, I asked as I'm starting to use a couple of 3rd-Hand capos. With these you can capo from 1 to 6 strings, and use more then one capo at a time!!!

I'm still looking as the folks that created notation software never seemed to anticipate this twist !!!!

[Jim Tozier]

Originally posted by Plexiprs
Add to the problem RRtalpkr, I asked as I'm starting to use a couple of 3rd-Hand capos. With these you can capo from 1 to 6 strings, and use more then one capo at a time!!!

Tell me about it . . . I was supposed to tab my song "Trinity," which uses three capos, but couldn't figure out a good way to do it. Using the actual fret numbers instead of relative fret numbers is probably the only way to go in this case . . .

[Plexiprs]

Originally posted by Jim Tozier
. . . I was supposed to tab my song "Trinity," which uses three capos, ............ . . .

Now that's a TAB I want to see !!!
BTW: Are they 3rd Hand or something completely different??? Inquiring minds, ya' know !

[Jim Tozier]

Originally posted by Plexiprs
BTW: Are they 3rd Hand or something completely different??? Inquiring minds, ya' know !

I just use a couple of regular Kysers, and cut the rubber to allow strings to pass through. One cut capo is the "Drop D" variety which covers strings 1-5 and lets the 6th pass through, while the other capo covers strings 3-5, letting 1, 2, and 6 pass through.

You can achieve the same results by using three (uncut) Kysers, by positioning one capo so that it only covers 5 strings, and using the "wrong" side of the capo (the part that is usually on the back of the neck) to cover strings 3-5. The grips on the capos make playing it this way a bit more awkward, but I've done it in a pinch . . .