Advice? Planning to soundport my acoustic CA Ox.

[Fixedgear60]

Interesting stream.... I did the same thing but with a much less expensive instrument... Tenor outdoor uke. It really opened up the sound of the instrument and I contacted Scott @outdoor uke to let him know the results.

Now the bad news. These materials are really hard to work with and very unforgiving ...unlike wood. Cosmetically, my soundport was not very pretty as the drill must have dulled halfway through the drilling process and bound up ...causing the hole to not be symmetrical.

Also.... PLEASE wear a mask when doing this.... my understanding is that CF particles are carcinogenic if inhaled... the body can not deal with these substances internally.

Good luck... IMHO .. I would not attempt again...:-)

PTL;

I've not had the experience of shaping CF. But, if I were to attempt such a task I would go very slow and approach the task thusly. I'd draw the cut I wanted then, with a 1/8" bit, I'd drill a series of small holes around the circle. Then would come the patience part--using a very small file I'd connect the holes. The finish would come with a fine half-round file.

I don't know if that would work, but it seems to me better than trying to saw my way through the CF.

In any event, the project is interesting and I look forward to hearing the process and the result. Good luck.

[SpruceTop]

Use diamond-coated drill bits and diamond-coated small files to remove and work the carbon fiber to your desired soundport shape. These diamond-coated tools are quite cheap and will last much longer than high-speed steel or carbide tooling. Check Harbor Freight (diamond-coated files) and other tooling dealers to buy the diamond-coated drills you need. Titanium-coated drills would be the next best thing to diamond-coated drills.

Spruce is on the money with his suggestions.

A Dremel-type tool would also be handy. Dremel makes some nice small bits and the dremel drum sanders would be perfect for smoothing the edges.

As also advised--face mask. And a small vacuum attachment for cleaning the grit out of the guitar.

And by all means, enjoy the exploration.

[Aspiring]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

The sides of a RainSong are all CF (or CF and fiberglass for the cheaper models) and less risk to cut. The back/sides of a CA are CF-spacer-CF. Obviously CA cuts them for barn doors, but I would look at how that was done on some friend's CA before cutting into yours. I don't know if they have to seal the cut to prevent delamination.

The technique that is recommended for composite core sailboats although most factories take short cuts, is to overdrill the hole slightly then tape the underside fill with a penetrating epoxy seal the core then redrill the correct size hole leaving a smooth sealed epoxy side to the hole.

Main purpose of that is to prevent water from entering the core. It's probably overkill in this situation.

[Aspiring]

Originally Posted by Fixedgear60

Interesting stream.... I did the same thing but with a much less expensive instrument... Tenor outdoor uke. It really opened up the sound of the instrument and I contacted Scott @outdoor uke to let him know the results.

Now the bad news. These materials are really hard to work with and very unforgiving ...unlike wood. Cosmetically, my soundport was not very pretty as the drill must have dulled halfway through the drilling process and bound up ...causing the hole to not be symmetrical.

Also.... PLEASE wear a mask when doing this.... my understanding is that CF particles are carcinogenic if inhaled... the body can not deal with these substances internally.

Good luck... IMHO .. I would not attempt again...:-)

I have picked up a carbon Klos travel guitar and I'm thinking of trying to soundport it. have noticed that I significantly prefer the sound from in front of the instrument then from the playing position and I'd like to see if a port would bring that to me while playing.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Aspiring

I have picked up a carbon Klos travel guitar and I'm thinking of trying to soundport it. have noticed that I significantly prefer the sound from in front of the instrument then from the playing position and I'd like to see if a port would bring that to me while playing.

Another easy way to hear the best tones your guitar has to offer while playing it is to play about three or four feet away from a reflective wall surface (bare wood, tile, plaster, painted dry-wall). This changes everything you hear and makes for a more immersive playing/listening experience. Of course, you can't carry a wall with you everywhere and thus the compulsion for some folks to sound port their guitar.

"Thus the compulsion for some folks to sound port their guitar." Pretty funny stuff Spruce, thank you.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by EvanB

"Thus the compulsion for some folks to sound port their guitar." Pretty funny stuff Spruce, thank you.

Well, Evan, the inability of every player to carry a wall with them definitely necessitates considering butchering a sound port into the side of their guitar. Fortunately, for me anyway, my easy solution is to I hire a semi and transport a marble wall with me everywhere I go.

[SpruceTop]

Speaking of sound ports, back in 2009, I ordered a Composite Acoustics Jim Stafford Signature Model Dreadnought with Onboard Aura. It had a sound port on the side and I thought it added something to my ability to hear the guitar better from a playing position. Unfortunately, the guitar's neck and action were just too difficult for me to play and feel comfortable with, and I returned the guitar to the dealer. Although I kind of make fun of adding a sound port to a guitar that wasn't built with one, I surely appreciate the desire of some players to want to try adding one to their guitar.

[Aspiring]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Well, Evan, the inability of every player to carry a wall with them definitely necessitates considering butchering a sound port into the side of their guitar. Fortunately, for me anyway, my easy solution is to I hire a semi and transport a marble wall with me everywhere I go.

For larks I tried this with the Klos. It does indeed provide a much fuller sound. Much more difference with the Klos playing 3 ft from a wall than my full sized wood guitars. Now you have increased my irrational desire to punch holes in this instrument.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Aspiring

For larks I tried this with the Klos. It does indeed provide a much fuller sound. Much more difference with the Klos playing 3 ft from a wall than my full sized wood guitars. Now you have increased my irrational desire to punch holes in this instrument.

Oh! Oh! Now I've done it!

If you do it, be sure to seal and smooth the edge of your sound port with carbon fiber sealer so the edges don't catch anything and rip the fiber. When I worked at Harris Corporation building the carbon-fiber structural cores of satellites we used a sealer on carbon fiber edges. I think several companies market the sealer but superglue can also be used. Good Luck in your endeavor and please keep us up-to-date on your progress and results.

[Aspiring]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Oh! Oh! Now I've done it!

If you do it, be sure to seal and smooth the edge of your sound port with carbon fiber sealer so the edges don't catch anything and rip the fiber. When I worked at Harris Corporation building the carbon-fiber structural cores of satellites we used a sealer on carbon fiber edges. I think several companies including market the sealer but superglue can also be used. Good Luck in your endeavor and please keep us up-to-date on your progress and results.

I am also auditioning the Furch Little Jane at the moment and it has a dual use sound port cut in it that allows the neck to go inside the body while travelling.

I am not sure that is the direction I want to try with the Klos as I feel it might be a bit too large and it's not exactly where I was thinking I would get the best soundport tuning from.

On the Furch it is edged with what looks like essentially weather stripping to pad the opening when travelling although on the Furch it is a single rectangular piece with no start / end.

I haven't decided what I would put on the edge yet but yes something likely makes sense. I will also look at what they did from the factory on the main soundhole.

I haven't seen carbon fiber sealer before I will need to look it up. All of the work I have done with carbon / fiberglas has been for cutting holes in boats and have used epoxy thickened epoxy or penetrating epoxy to seal as appropriate.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Aspiring

I am also auditioning the Furch Little Jane at the moment and it has a dual use sound port cut in it that allows the neck to go inside the body while travelling.

I am not sure that is the direction I want to try with the Klos as I feel it might be a bit too large and it's not exactly where I was thinking I would get the best soundport tuning from.

On the Furch it is edged with what looks like essentially weather stripping to pad the opening when travelling although on the Furch it is a single rectangular piece with no start / end.

I haven't decided what I would put on the edge yet but yes something likely makes sense. I will also look at what they did from the factory on the main soundhole.

I haven't seen carbon fiber sealer before I will need to look it up. All of the work I have done with carbon / fiberglas has been for cutting holes in boats and have used epoxy thickened epoxy or penetrating epoxy to seal as appropriate.

Something else to be aware of is that introducing another hole in a guitar may change the resonance or tone of the guitar and thus change the way it sounds. Maybe it'll sound better or worse or you won't hear any change in resonance? You will, however, likely achieve your intended purpose of hearing the guitar better from your playing position.

[Aspiring]

My plan is to try to remove the soundport relatively intact so I can make a cover back up.

Both for the ability to revert back and for the ability to make a cover for the time when travelling and I want to practice quietly. I took a soundhole cover on my last business trip and that proved useful in the hotel.

But yes I am curious as to the impact on the main tone by introducing a soundport. Another reason why I'm thinking smaller might be better.

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Something else to be aware of is that introducing another hole in a guitar may change the resonance or tone of the guitar and thus change the way it sounds. Maybe it'll sound better or worse or you won't hear any change in resonance? You will, however, likely achieve your intended purpose of hearing the guitar better from your playing position.