Recommended post processing for direct taylor expression system recording

[waigy]

I've been relying on the years of research that Taylor have done developing the expression system, so I've recorded most of my youtube vids using a balanced lead from my Taylor 614ce straight into my Motu traveler.

Some tracks have two different guitar recordings panned hard left and right, others have a touch of chorus just to give some stereo widening.
I then only add some reverb to the overall mix.

I would prefer not to use external mikes for a few reasons, so I'm looking for ideas to improve the standard expression system sound.

Maybe some eq or effect recommendations?

Here's one of my latest vids recorded as stated above with 2 different guitar recordings left and right, then some overall reverb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8arv4RZZmuA

[Doug Young]

It's a matter of taste, of course, but I think there are better approaches than chorus. Your guitar sounds ok to me, but it sounds like you also used chorus on your vocal?, which sounds a bit overly processed and unnatural. There are a number of stereoizing plugins out there, tho often a simple room reverb along with some EQ is all that's needed to give a guitar some space and liven up a pickup. I posted some examples in another thread a few weeks ago that are related. My examples aren't with the ES, but the process would be similar:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...ghlight=Harbal

[waigy]

Thanks Doug

The fact that you think my guitar sounds ok tells me that I might not have to change my recording technique at all.
It's easy to see that you are very experienced and knowledgeable when it comes to guitar playing/recording.

I think I understand how your eq matching technique works, but I will explain later why I'm not confident about doing it myself.

The thread link you posted, probably used to have the info I need to get the results I'm after.
You answered a thread relating to the user "picker2" who had eq curves specifically for the ES system to make it sound like a microphone recording.
If I could get a copy of that eq curve that would be my easiest option just now.
I notice you recorded a taylor 314CE on your site, do you have the eq graph for your neumann microphone recordings?

One of the reasons I don't want to use external mikes is this, a few years ago, a guy who was taking a sound engineers course at college recorded me playing using 2 AKG C1000s mikes.
He got an amazing sound from my guitar (which was maybe a freshman at that time), I later bought 2 AKG c1000s mikes to try to replicate his results.

But, while he was recording me, he would move one of the mikes about 1cm, then listen for a bit then move it again about 1cm.

I do all my recording on my own, so it's difficult for me to check for recording "sweet spots" etc., apart from the fact that I really don't really know what to listen for.
Every position I tried when first getting the AKGs sounded great to me.

I don't have the experience or knowledge for good mike placement, that's why I'd rather just get ES eq settings that will replicate a well placed decent mike (as much as possible).
That's also why I wouldn't be able to get a good benchmark microphone sound to use with your technique.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by waigy

I think I understand how your eq matching technique works, but I will explain later why I'm not confident about doing it myself.

It's just a tool for comparing EQs visually. You can do the same thing by ear as well, with some practice

I notice you recorded a taylor 314CE on your site, do you have the eq graph for your neumann microphone recordings?

Sure, here it is, tho beware: this really is a comparison for that guitar, with me playing it, playing a couple of specific things. Ideally, you'd need a much broader sample, and have it be of the sounds you make, to be correct. There's a much more sophisticated process, as I understand it, involved in making the Aura EQ curves, for example. I'd also not really try to match this curve exactly, just eyeball it and use some general ideas, like getting rid of the exagerated bass of the pickup around 70 Hz, unless of course that's what you want. Maybe cut some mids around 500, and boost some highs around 6-7KHz. All pretty standard stuff with many pickups.

But, while he was recording me, he would move one of the mikes about 1cm, then listen for a bit then move it again about 1cm.

That's a good thing, not a problem. It does take experimenting, but you can think of the mic positioning as a powerful tone control - dial in any sound you want. The good thing is that even the worst position probably sounds better than anything you'll get with a pickup. But put on headphones, and make a first pass, then record a few bars and listen. Repeat until you're happy. After a while, you'll get it, and setting up can be really fast and easy. Most people go thru this, even many pro players these days record themselves, no fancy studios with engineers behind the glass. It's actually really easy compared to recording a large band

Every position I tried when first getting the AKGs sounded great to me.

Exactly. In that case, why change? The process is pretty simple, set up mics, starting with a standard location (well documented on the web, just search for recording acoustic guitar, mic placement, and so on). If you like what you hear, stop, you're done! If not, move them a bit and try again. If you find something you like or even think isn't terrible, you're way ahead of any pickup, where it's pretty certain to sound mediocre at best on a recording.

[waigy]

thanks again Doug

I quickly tried an exact copy of your eq graph and couldn't hear any difference at all when I bypassed the eq.
I'll try again tomorrow using those settings as a default start point, then do some tweaking.
Maybe I'm trying to improve something that doesn't need improving.

For my youtube vids I still prefer to use a lead in the guitar and my headmike (which hardly picks up the guitar) instead of external mikes.
It makes it much easier to touch up any mistakes individually on vocals or guitar.

For my album recordings it's not a problem recording vocals and guitar one at a time, so I have used both akgs and a direct cable on the guitar and mixed between the three.

[Doug Young]

Editing/isolation is certainly an issue for You Tube, and a reasonable reason to use a pickup. I just solve that - tho I don't sing - by not editing, I have to nail it or live with the mistakes. You might check out Fran Guidry's site - he has some nice demos on how to use Figure-8 mics to get isolation between vocals and guitar.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by waigy

I've been relying on the years of research that Taylor have done developing the expression system, so I've recorded most of my youtube vids using a balanced lead from my Taylor 614ce straight into my Motu traveler. ...

I feel compelled to point out that Taylor didn't develop the Expression System to replace microphones in the studio, there objective was to produce a better pickup system for amplification purposes. However, the ES does produce better recordings than some other pickups systems.

Bob Taylor:

"I've mentioned before, and I'll say it again, that we were not trying to fix a mic in the studio. That isn't broken. We were trying to fix a plugged in guitar on a stage. "

Nevertheless, Bob Taylor did add:

"We did take a guitar up to Sony Studios and met about 6 world-class engineer/producers. They set up a reference mic and recorded the guitar. They set up the ES and did the same. They loved them both. At one point of the A-B'ing, we said, why does the mic sound dull? The engineer said, "Our mic doesn't sound dull, your system sounds Brilliant!" That was a nice moment. But then they put both a mic and and ES on at the same time and it was like a new moment in history was made.

That was just a little bragging. Sorry......

Imagine, if you will, putting sensors on your throat and inside your mouth and trying to capture what a mic in front of your face can capture. It can't be done, really. So the progress we made on the ES at getting close to this sound on the guitar is really awesome, I think."

[alohachris]

Aloha,

For me the question is, "Why would any player choose to record an acoustic guitar using an ES System alone instead of a good pair of condenser mics (not 1000's) alone?

What are the scenarios for that choice?

Thanks.

alohachris