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  #31  
Old 04-30-2020, 08:55 AM
jjhturbo jjhturbo is offline
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Just a little sad that this thread has turned, once again, into an Airing of Grievances
Personally, my intent was not to air grievances, although I admit I was/am a little disappointed with this one aspect (buzzing) of my X20, especially since it cost me a fair amount of coin. The main intent was to see if the buzzing could possibly return after I painstakingly got the frets level enough to eliminate 90% of the buzzing. Just wanted to gauge people's experiences and what to expect.

Yes, I agree Emerald's customer service is top-notch, and they have offered to have me ship back my X20 at their cost so they can address the buzzing, so if it comes to having to do that....that is an option (to their credit). Obviously, in this climate and them being overseas...I'm hoping I don't have to do that.

And I think the consensus here, even from those who have had various issues, is that Emerald still produces a great product and that we are for the most part very happy. But, there is definitely room for improvement. I think this "constructive criticism" serves to benefit everyone in the end (the company and the consumer) as long as everyone has the freedom to engage in open dialogue.
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  #32  
Old 04-30-2020, 09:24 AM
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Personally, my intent was not to air grievances, although I admit I was/am a little disappointed with this one aspect (buzzing) of my X20, especially since it cost me a fair amount of coin. The main intent was to see if the buzzing could possibly return after I painstakingly got the frets level enough to eliminate 90% of the buzzing. Just wanted to gauge people's experiences and what to expect.

Yes, I agree Emerald's customer service is top-notch, and they have offered to have me ship back my X20 at their cost so they can address the buzzing, so if it comes to having to do that....that is an option (to their credit). Obviously, in this climate and them being overseas...I'm hoping I don't have to do that.

And I think the consensus here, even from those who have had various issues, is that Emerald still produces a great product and that we are for the most part very happy. But, there is definitely room for improvement. I think this "constructive criticism" serves to benefit everyone in the end (the company and the consumer) as long as everyone has the freedom to engage in open dialogue.
All quite understandable, and I certainly agree that we should all be able to discuss such issues in a constructive manner, regardless of who the vendor is.
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  #33  
Old 04-30-2020, 09:34 AM
Dbone Dbone is offline
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Personally, my intent was not to air grievances, although I admit I was/am a little disappointed with this one aspect (buzzing) of my X20, especially since it cost me a fair amount of coin. The main intent was to see if the buzzing could possibly return after I painstakingly got the frets level enough to eliminate 90% of the buzzing. Just wanted to gauge people's experiences and what to expect.

Yes, I agree Emerald's customer service is top-notch, and they have offered to have me ship back my X20 at their cost so they can address the buzzing, so if it comes to having to do that....that is an option (to their credit). Obviously, in this climate and them being overseas...I'm hoping I don't have to do that.

And I think the consensus here, even from those who have had various issues, is that Emerald still produces a great product and that we are for the most part very happy. But, there is definitely room for improvement. I think this "constructive criticism" serves to benefit everyone in the end (the company and the consumer) as long as everyone has the freedom to engage in open dialogue.
Your last sentence is the key. Let’s just keep things real. This will serve everyone in the best way possible longer term. Customer and manufacturer.

These are not insignificant issues. Multi thousand dollar instruments should not have setup problems and quality problems like this when they are brand new. This is a very simple and true statement that seems to make people around here uncomfortable. Conversations based in truth and reality making people uncomfortable is something that I don’t get. The truth can hurt some times, but it can also lead to problems like this being addressed.

I personally do not subscribe to fanboy mentality. As soon as we let that happen this place gets to be a whole lot less useful and less interesting for me.

I personally very much appreciate the candor of the people in this thread “airing their grievances”. Thank you.
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  #34  
Old 04-30-2020, 09:58 AM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Can I ask why you would take the pictures down? You are not stating anything that is not true, right? You can do what you want, but having truth in information around here is helpful for others to be able to make informed purchase decisions. I don’t personally see anything wrong with that.
Yes I agree with your point of view for sure but it's hard for me to explain. I did a thread long ago called "Emerald X20 mods" or something like that where I talked about the issues with my X20 in a more non destructive way. I never mentioned all of the issues there but I covered most of them. I can fix nuts, saddles, buzzing, etc myself but I couldn't fix that bridge. My 'fix' was putting those power pins on there to cover it up. Like I said earlier I never posted those pics out of respect for the company. Receiving the guitar in that state was extra hurtful due to the respect I have for the company and it still stings to this day.

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Originally Posted by eatswodo View Post
No worries - I figured that might have been the case. I'd agree, having followed the original story, that your X20 should never have been shipped in that state.

I'm an unashamed Emerald fan, but not so partisan to believe that everything they ship will be flawless. I do, however, believe that the company and its leadership are very open and willing to a) admit when things do go wrong, and b) do their very best to put things back to rights again.

Just a little sad that this thread has turned, once again, into an Airing of Grievances
Yes I agree they handle issues like 'pros'. Alistair is no doubt a stand up guy and he seems to always make it right. Remember last time when someone had an issue with the older fretboard. It was than totally redesigned as result which was IMO an amazing response. The issues with my guitars are not easily caught by a quick 'look-over'. What bugs me the most is the individual who did the work knew the difference but passed it down the line anyways. That's the POV I took so as a result my 'beef' is not with the company it's with whoever did the actual work.
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  #35  
Old 04-30-2020, 10:44 AM
Melt in the Sun Melt in the Sun is offline
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I'll throw in my two cents as well. I bought an X20 from stock with a fairly substantial fretboard defect, which I sent back and received a refund. The photos and story (and Emerald's response) are on this forum and can easily be found through my profile. That thread drifted off-topic as most do here, and was locked by the site admin.

I used the credit from that guitar to fund a new build, which I received last summer. There's a thread about that guitar too under my name. It also arrived with problems, albeit more easily fixed. It arrived with a slightly twisted neck, showing about 0.010" more relief on the treble side than the bass. Alistair called me to chat about it, but in the end he didn't believe it was a big deal. I ended up sending it to SF Guitarworks for a plek job, which leveled the plane of the frets even though the neck is slightly off. It plays perfectly now but cost me an extra ~500 on an already expensive guitar. Neither Emerald nor SFGW cut the nut slots low enough, which still bothers me a little...one day I'll fix it. That being said, the custom neck profile (Taylor) is perfect.

From the photos GuitarLuva posted, it certainly looks like their bridge work needs to improve. Mine does not have the pin height issue his does, but the hole spacing and angles are erratic and the break angles to the saddle vary widely, which probably contributes to the UST balance issues that seem common to these guitars.
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  #36  
Old 04-30-2020, 01:49 PM
Warren01 Warren01 is offline
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I have buzzing down the neck, but let me clarify a bit. I get the buzz when I play the A chord, with 2-1-3 fingering. I have a few (4) other guitars, and have owned others that did not cause me a problem. For some reason, the X-20 does and has since day one. I've played a bit with the truss rod, but usually set it back the way it was. I've tuned 1/2 step down and tried lighter (11's) gauge strings and that seems to help. I've just tried my hand crowning the first 5 frets a bit and I think it improved. Next string change, I'll try and get serious with the crowning.
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  #37  
Old 04-30-2020, 03:19 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by Melt in the Sun View Post
I'll throw in my two cents as well. I bought an X20 from stock with a fairly substantial fretboard defect, which I sent back and received a refund. The photos and story (and Emerald's response) are on this forum and can easily be found through my profile. That thread drifted off-topic as most do here, and was locked by the site admin.

I used the credit from that guitar to fund a new build, which I received last summer. There's a thread about that guitar too under my name. It also arrived with problems, albeit more easily fixed. It arrived with a slightly twisted neck, showing about 0.010" more relief on the treble side than the bass. Alistair called me to chat about it, but in the end he didn't believe it was a big deal. I ended up sending it to SF Guitarworks for a plek job, which leveled the plane of the frets even though the neck is slightly off. It plays perfectly now but cost me an extra ~500 on an already expensive guitar. Neither Emerald nor SFGW cut the nut slots low enough, which still bothers me a little...one day I'll fix it. That being said, the custom neck profile (Taylor) is perfect.

From the photos GuitarLuva posted, it certainly looks like their bridge work needs to improve. Mine does not have the pin height issue his does, but the hole spacing and angles are erratic and the break angles to the saddle vary widely, which probably contributes to the UST balance issues that seem common to these guitars.
Yes I can remember that one. Yours was the guitar that lead to the fretboard redesign. Since I have both I can add that I do like the new fretboard a little better though I have no issue with the older style either.

To brighten up the thread, those power pins I put on my X20 not only cover up the issues but I think they look nice on Emeralds bridge style. I do like the guitar despite the issues and have no intentions of parting with it.
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  #38  
Old 04-30-2020, 04:54 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
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....Since I have both I can add that I do like the new fretboard a little better though I have no issue with the older style either.....
I'm glad to hear that - thanks for commenting. There is a custom shorter scale X20 currently in the works for me. It will eventually replace my completely stock X20 built in 2016, which is just wonderful. I have never seen the new matte fret board in person, and was a little worried that it would look or feel inferior to the glossy one on all our other Emeralds. One less thing to worry about as I wait patiently......
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  #39  
Old 04-30-2020, 04:55 PM
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It’s all good. This is an informative thread. Guaranteed that Emerald is following this thread and will progress from the information. How is that a bad thing?

Regardless of the problems Emerald has a growing fan base, as they should. Overall they have a compelling product that is evolving in the right direction. Feedback like this from customers is beneficial towards this evolution.

Comparatively, I don’t recall reading a lot of setup and playability issues coming out of RainSong. I “gave it” to RainSong a bit in a thread here when I did my NGD. It was a discussion about the facts and nothing more. A lot of cosmetic problems and they sent me a replacement that addressed the major issues with the first unit.

That’s all that was on those RainSongs...cosmetic issues...The replacement was fine in the end, so RainSong responded....There weren’t any sorts of performance, setup, or playability issues on either guitar, and I don’t recall reading about any such problems on RainSongs during my time here. I suppose this is an advantage that a company like RainSong has...a higher degree of luthier experience given their time in the market...It only stands to reason that their processes would be a little more flushed out...This will happen for any good company eventually...
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  #40  
Old 04-30-2020, 05:01 PM
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I'm glad to hear that - thanks for commenting. There is a custom shorter scale X20 currently in the works for me. It will eventually replace my completely stock X20 built in 2016, which is just wonderful. I have never seen the new matte fret board in person, and was a little worried that it would look or feel inferior to the glossy one on all our other Emeralds. One less thing to worry about as I wait patiently......
I don't think you have anything to be concerned about. My X20 has the old glossy fretboard, and my X20-7 has the new matte finish.

I can no more tell the difference between them when I'm playing than I can the rosewood, ebony, unfinished maple or varnished maple fretboards of the other guitars I own.

I think it's yet another factor invented by guitar forum participants to keep us all more neurotic than we otherwise would be.
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  #41  
Old 04-30-2020, 05:05 PM
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Thanks David. I'm really not worried - it is a simply point of conversation here in CF land. If it worried me very much, I would insist that it be built with the old style surface, assuming that is still possible. In many ways I actually prefer a matte fret board surface. I have been known to take 0000 steel wool to an ebony fret board to make it more evenly matte when wear patterns emerge between strings.
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  #42  
Old 04-30-2020, 05:15 PM
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Thanks David. I'm really not worried - it is a simply point of conversation here in CF land. If it worried me very much, I would insist that it be built with the old style surface, assuming that is still possible. In many ways I actually prefer a matte fret board surface. I have been known to take 0000 steel wool to an ebony fret board to make it more evenly matte when wear patterns emerge between strings.
I did actually ask when my X20-7 was under construction whether I could have the old style fretboard. To my eyes, it looked so much better than the flat grey appearance the new style had in the studio shots - but I was told that it was not an option.

In real life, it's way less jarring. I'm fine with it.
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  #43  
Old 04-30-2020, 05:58 PM
jjhturbo jjhturbo is offline
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Originally Posted by Dbone View Post
It’s all good. This is an informative thread. Guaranteed that Emerald is following this thread and will progress from the information. How is that a bad thing?

Regardless of the problems Emerald has a growing fan base, as they should. Overall they have a compelling product that is evolving in the right direction. Feedback like this from customers is beneficial towards this evolution.

Comparatively, I don’t recall reading a lot of setup and playability issues coming out of RainSong. I “gave it” to RainSong a bit in a thread here when I did my NGD. It was a discussion about the facts and nothing more. A lot of cosmetic problems and they sent me a replacement that addressed the major issues with the first unit.

That’s all that was on those RainSongs...cosmetic issues...The replacement was fine in the end, so RainSong responded....There weren’t any sorts of performance, setup, or playability issues on either guitar, and I don’t recall reading about any such problems on RainSongs during my time here. I suppose this is an advantage that a company like RainSong has...a higher degree of luthier experience given their time in the market...It only stands to reason that their processes would be a little more flushed out...This will happen for any good company eventually...
Agree with everything you said. Emerald is a good company wih great leadership and a very compelling product that delivers for the most part. Fine-tuning and improving their product line is only going to help them grow into an even better company. I for one am certainly rooting for them to see that happen.
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  #44  
Old 04-30-2020, 07:11 PM
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I don't think you have anything to be concerned about. My X20 has the old glossy fretboard, and my X20-7 has the new matte finish.

I can no more tell the difference between them when I'm playing than I can the rosewood, ebony, unfinished maple or varnished maple fretboards of the other guitars I own.

I think it's yet another factor invented by guitar forum participants to keep us all more neurotic than we otherwise would be.
The problem, it seems to me, is that there is really only so much to say about a subject. Ever seen two guys try to maintain a conversation after "How about the weather?..." or "How about them Twins?...". Here we can just continually post random thoughts about all things guitar way past that point.

Tony
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  #45  
Old 04-30-2020, 08:15 PM
GuitarLuva GuitarLuva is offline
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Originally Posted by Earl49 View Post
I'm glad to hear that - thanks for commenting. There is a custom shorter scale X20 currently in the works for me. It will eventually replace my completely stock X20 built in 2016, which is just wonderful. I have never seen the new matte fret board in person, and was a little worried that it would look or feel inferior to the glossy one on all our other Emeralds. One less thing to worry about as I wait patiently......
Yeah the old fretboard was black with a gloss polyester finish which matched the theme well on their guitars. The new one looks kinda grayish in photos but it has a nice texture to it which I like. Either is fine IMO.
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