#46
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I don't think of this as ORTF, tho I guess it's similar. The mics were about 10 inches apart and aimed outward, so I'm just considering this to be spaced pairs, with the mics aimed at upper and lower bout. When you're micing this close, I'm not sure the behavior of things like ORTF, NOS, etc, really come into play. The Brauner's in this example are 16 inches apart and aimed a bit inward, so that's the sort of opposite approach you're talking about, tho wider. But I'd call that spaced pairs as well.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#47
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An interesting thought, since you already have the two samples with Schopes and Gefell M300's= It would be nice to hear each one of those with reverb added. I mention this because reverb adds a openness type feeling.On the surface, the Schoeps seemingly has that openness over Gefells. In some ways I would term it in similar aspects of mahogany vs rosewood. There is an openness(overtones) to rosewood and a more fundamental on mahogany and maple(although, I have heard mahogany with openness as well. But on a primary level I think most agree that mahogany has a bit less Overtones than rosewood.) Some people feel that one style wood suits their music better. So what I am wondering if there is any correlation between the effect of Reverb on a seemingly more fundamental recording of Gefell vereses a seemingly more open recording of the Schoeps.Basically, it might be that with reverb, one mic will be more pronounced than the other. Anyway, that is just a thought, have no experience in this area. But I do love reverb. |
#48
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I always mike out further away, usually in the 18" to 22" range. Also usually employing a spaced pair arrangement, though occasionally some other unusual mike positions have given good results.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#49
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That can be great, if it works for you. I've recorded in a few studios where even 3 feet back sounded great. In my room, I don't like the sound. From what I'vev observed, many fingerstyle recordings are done very close-mic'd, even closer than I usually use. But that's likely because most fingerstyle players are recording at home, not in big-budget studios.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar Last edited by Doug Young; 10-09-2018 at 05:06 PM. |
#50
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#51
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Mic Shootout
Thanks for posting this Doug. I really like the sound of the Schoeps on that guitar.
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John Tucson, AZ 2020 Kraut 00, Swiss/Brazilian, build 2018 Eady EG Pro Electric, Redwood/Mahogany 2013 Baranik Meridian, Blue Spruce/Cocobolo, build 2008 Baranik CX, Blue Spruce/African Blackwood 2008 Breedlove A20 Masterclass 12-string, Adi/IRW 2003 Thames classical, Euro/Brazilian Fodera Standard 4 Fretless bass, figured walnut |
#52
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I encourage you to experiment. You never know where it will lead. Keep your mind (and ears) open & have fun with it.
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-Steve 1927 Martin 00-21 1986 Fender Strat 1987 Ibanez RG560 1988 Fender Fretless J Bass 1991 Washburn HB-35s 1995 Taylor 812ce 1996 Taylor 510c (custom) 1996 Taylor 422-R (Limited Edition) 1997 Taylor 810-WMB (Limited Edition) 1998 Taylor 912c (Custom) 2019 Fender Tele |
#53
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I would have loved for the Gefells to have offered something that would justify them to myself. I had hoped that there might have been a connection to Gefells meaty sound and the addition of reverb. After all they are nearly half the price as as Schoeps. Once or twice a year Vintage King runs a Pair at about $1500. But I believe the Schoeps is a Clear winner, and in my opinion by a by a lot. I know that for my style of playing(and that is the key for all of us), that extra bit if openness is mandatory for my needsAnyway...big, big help. Now I do not feel like I need to audition the Gefells anymore, and I can concentrate on A/Bing between Schoeps and Sankens. Still some hope for the Sankens as they would be $800 cheaper a pair. Never seems to be much of a discount on used Schoeps...so for just a little bit more I would buy a new pair.I am still months away from saving up. But your Test has really helped out. |
#54
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#55
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Glad it was helpful, but keep in mind, this is just one sample, I'm not sure I'd just conclude that the Gefell's aren't worth trying. I've had the experience of recording something one day, being really happy with the sound, then sitting down at the same mics, same position, the next day, and not being able to get the same sound. I wouldn't be able to definitively say that any of the mics in this example are the "best", they can all work, might sound different in different placements, with different guitars, different rooms, a different tune or playing style, in a different phase of the moon, whatever. This of course, is how I end up with more mics (and guitars) than I really need, but there are worse problems to have :-)
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#56
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Unless you consider including the Gefell M295 or M296 into your comparisons. They might compare better to the Schoeps. They’re in the range of $2500 a pair. Rick-slo has some great recordings using the M295.
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Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi Last edited by ChuckS; 10-10-2018 at 03:30 PM. |
#57
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However, I found the 295 a bit lacking in the low end for my needs. I play a dread with a reasonable amount of bass. One of the 295's went dead after a week...so I just returned both of them. Indeed the high end was wonderful and captured all kinds of detail. That great openness that I love. Perhaps if I had more time with those, I would have found that micing even closer would have made up for the Low end. I believe the 295's do have a heavy roll off on the low end. However when I rented a Schoeps...I found myself missing the high end of the Gefells...ha ha....I just want it all. |
#58
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I had heard this from other people, but was a bit dubious as to there closeness until I heard a comparison myself. I certainly would not turn down an audition of those mics...but I would rather concentrate between the Schoeps and the Sankens which I believe had the Openness that the KM84 or the Gefells M300's do not. What exactly is openness, I could not say. Is it faster transient response? Is it capturing higher harmonics? Is it hearing things in between the lines?I could not say. But there is no doubt in my mind after what I have heard that I need that openness. And time and time again, I hear it with the Schoeps. I do not have the talent of finger dexterity that you and Michael have. However...I did have some classical training back in the sixties(actually took some lessons from our neighbor and lifelong friend, who was Segovia's number one understudy. Had the great pleasure of having Segovia and other greats of that time at private home parties. Of course..I was but fifteen at the time.) I took some of that small training and combined it with heavy strumming for melodic rock. Letting a note-chord ring out, and dynamic touch is what gives me my signature on guitar. I am not great player in any way, but I get a sound. And representing that sound is everything to myself. |
#59
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That’s too funny, and as Foghorn Leghorn would say, “I resemble that remark.” And that’s why my recording chain was selected; for capturing my sound with as much realism as I could.
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Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi |
#60
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I usually mike a ways out for the sound I like. http://dcoombsguitar.com/CDFive/WhereToDemo.mp3 http://dcoombsguitar.com/CDFive/BossameDemo.mp3 http://dcoombsguitar.com/Guitar%20Mu...eemoreDemo.mp3 http://dcoombsguitar.com/CDFive/BlackFeatherDemo.mp3
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 10-10-2018 at 06:30 PM. |