How does this recording sound?

[Dave Hicks]

I'll admit, my ears are shot - a process started by Leslie West in 1970 and continued until recently by Mo the Bionic Drummer.

This recording sounds OK to me, but what am I missing, and can I improve recordings with my current equipment?

Recording specifics:

Untreated room, irregularly shaped and carpeted, about 25 x 20 x 9 ft.

The recorder is a Zoom R8. No DAW used (I do have Cubase available.)

Mics on the lead instruments (Gibson A0 mandolin and Taylor 414) were 4-6" from neck-body join (Blue Spark LDC) and same from the bridge (SM57), 12-18" apart. Lead tracks are separated a bit in the stereo field.

Backing instruments are P-bass and Taylor, DIed, and Gibson ES125 through small amp. Drums are a Zoom track, and perhaps are too high in the mix.

I EQ'd the leads by cutting a lot below 80 Hz and and some low pass on the mando at 1.3 K to cut some frequencies that sounded harsh. Small amount of reverb on leads, more on rhythm guitars.

Thanks for checking it all out!

D.H.

[jim1960]

It sounds thin because too many instruments are competing in the higher frequencies and there's no low end. When the guitar starts playing lead on some lower notes, the lack of low end becomes very noticeable. You say there's a P-Bass in there but I'm not hearing it at all in the first half of the song. It shows up towards the middle and sounds about right during the guitar solo a little more than halfway through the track but the first half of the song needs some beefing up on the bottom. Not sure if there's a kick in there. If there is, I'm not hearing that either. I'd start by pulling down the hats (I'm assuming the thing that sounds like shakers is actually high hats) quite a bit and maybe tame them some by using a low pass filter in the 14k-18k range. Those hats are dominating the track to a large degree.

[rmp]

I think Jim is on to it.

For example, there's like almost no sonic diff between the mando and the guitar and there should be.

I am listening on a good setup with a subwoofer, and while the Bass track is there it doesn't sound like it's totally occupying the "bottom" of the mix.

[FrankHudson]

I'll leave it to those more skilled than I to advise you on the recording mechanics, tools, and techniques. Instead I'll say something about my experience of the arrangement.

My quick response to the piece is that I had a hard time finding the groove. The mandolin and then lead acoustic guitar line and the acoustic chord guitar seemed to have something going groove wise, but the other instruments and the drum pattern didn't seem to get into their pocket in an intriguing way.

Now of course that's a quick response after one listen from one person, and I'll tell you I've heard similar issues with my own pieces too--which could even be the reason I noticed that in your piece.

So my advice, and something I tell myself after not being satisfied with my own work, is that just because you can add instruments and tracks, that addition won't necessarily improve the piece. Your example might have been stronger with just the acoustic guitar and the mandolin.

[fitness1]

Pretty much agree with what has been said so far.....to me it needs more warmth overall, and the sound stage needs to be expanded (pan the instruments more into their own space to give separation)

[TBman]

To my untrained ears it needs more bass.

[Dave Hicks]

Thanks, all. This seemed to me like it wanted to be a band piece, rather than solo instruments.

I originally had the bass up higher, but it seemed to be throbbing away a bit too enthusiastically. I'll pull it up more, and see if can kill some of the highs on the drum track (or maybe find another track that fits better). I can also space everything out more in the stereo field.

Would it make sense to put one rhythm guitar panned to one side, and the bass to the other, with leads in the middle (and drop the other rhythm guitar)?

I'll (eventually) put up a remix. Thanks again for your helpful comments.

D.H.

[KevWind]

Right now I can only listen on my laptop through my tracking HP's. Studio is down until new interface arrives .
First let me say, I think it has some real (if yet unrealized) potential
That said:
Concur with much of what has been said

It is thin sounding (buildup in the low and mid"s) and very center oriented and a bit hyped in the high frequencies

Honestly I would loose the stick wack ( if that is what you are calling the drum track) (at least that is all I am hearing) because it is distracting and a detraction not an enhancement and it's beat pattern does not really fit with the guitar rhythm

The bass is lost and I am guessing if it is throbbing when raised in level it needs some high pass filtering (cut low end) It may seem counterintuitive but if you want to have the bass cut through multi track mix cutting it from 50 or 60 hz down and maybe a narrow Q cut at maybe 250 and 500 (depending on where the honky tubby sound is )

Me I would definitely dump the raw files into your Cubase DAW. I would not try to mix on the Zoom (regardless of the sales Hype and advertising verbiage)
This tracks potential lies in real mixing on a real DAW because IMO,,,if you want to get good results from multi instrument tracks get familiar with a good DAW

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Dave Hicks

Would it make sense to put one rhythm guitar panned to one side, and the bass to the other, with leads in the middle (and drop the other rhythm guitar?

Unless there's a compelling reason to do otherwise, bass, kick, snare, and lead vocals are usually right down the middle.

[Dave Hicks]

PLEASE SEE POST 12 FOR A REMIX WITH INSTRUMENTS REARRANGED IN STEREO SPACE.

OK, I remixed it (gave the new version a different name to keep it straight - original in first post.

What I did:

Exported tracks to Cubase*.
Ditched the drum track.
Brought the bass and rhythm guitars up (maybe too much?).
I usually EQ bass by cutting around 300 Hz, boosting around 800. I accentuated that a bit.
Boosted guitar around 125 Hz and mandolin around 300 to differentiate them a bit better.
Compressed and limited the leads.
Other miscellaneous, too.

Still some examples of involuntary syncopation, but oh well.

Link removed - see update in post 12.

* I've had Cubase for a while, but it insisted on sending output to the laptop speakers. I finally figured out how to send to headphones, so I used some cheapo Presonus monitors to mix.

D.H.

[fitness1]

The overall sound is loads better, but it still seems all the instruments are coming from very close to the same space in the sound stage.

Take a listen to this D.G. Quintet track to get a feel for what I'm talking about. I've been using this as a reference track for audiophile listening for 40 years. It shows how you can widen the sound stage and still keep great focus and "air" around your instruments.

Sorry - can't get it to embed properly - just click on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbDf...xC0W0U&index=2

[Dave Hicks]

Originally Posted by fitness1

The overall sound is loads better, but it still seems all the instruments are coming from very close to the same space in the sound stage.

Take a listen to this D.G. Quintet track to get a feel for what I'm talking about. I've been using this as a reference track for audiophile listening for 40 years. It shows how you can widen the sound stage and still keep great focus and "air" around your instruments.

Sorry - can't get it to embed properly - just click on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbDf...xC0W0U&index=2

Thanks!

Like so, maybe? I moved the lead instruments L/R and rhythm toward the middle. Since there's only one lead at a time, does it seem unbalanced?

D.H.

[fitness1]

Yes - that's what I was getting at....it's way better than the original now!

[Dave Hicks]

Originally Posted by fitness1

The overall sound is loads better, but it still seems all the instruments are coming from very close to the same space in the sound stage.

Take a listen to this D.G. Quintet track to get a feel for what I'm talking about. I've been using this as a reference track for audiophile listening for 40 years. It shows how you can widen the sound stage and still keep great focus and "air" around your instruments.

Sorry - can't get it to embed properly - just click on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbDf...xC0W0U&index=2

Originally Posted by fitness1

Yes - that's what I was getting at....it's way better than the original now!

OK, thanks - I'll leave them all up for a bit.

D.H.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Dave Hicks

OK, thanks - I'll leave them all up for a bit.

D.H.

sent you a PM