Another fingerpicking question

[antvas1963]

I’m trying to do finger exercises to get a little more control on my right hand as I start to finger pick. Some places that I check on YouTube and online tell me that my thumb is used to pluck the bass strings E,A,and D. Index finger is used for the G string my middle finger is used for the B string in my ring finger is used for the high Estring. Another way I was using my thumb to pluck the low Estring my index finger for the A , middle for the D and so on.
And then there is Travis picking which I haven’t really delved into that much. So which is the better method for developing good habits if I want to get into fingerpicking?

[reeve21]

The first method you describe is pretty conventional. I’ve never heard of the second method.

Lots of people out here started out fingerpicking with Mark Hanson‘s introduction to Travis picking book. Toby Walker also has a good series of video lessons including an introduction to finger style guitar.

To answer your question, I’m not sure there is a right or wrong way.

[airborne1]

I am a beginner in finger style also and I follow the first style you mentioned. I figure doing it that way is a good foundation and after acquiring some skill and knowledge, I can alter, if I choose. Good luck in your journey!

[Kyle215]

Tommy Emmanuel has a good video on YouTube on fingerpicking technique.

[antvas1963]

I tend to play a little better when I can anchor with my pinky so I guess I’ll be using the first method.

[NormanKliman]

Originally Posted by antvas1963

I’m trying to do finger exercises to get a little more control on my right hand as I start to finger pick. Some places that I check on YouTube and online tell me that my thumb is used to pluck the bass strings E,A,and D. Index finger is used for the G string my middle finger is used for the B string in my ring finger is used for the high Estring. Another way I was using my thumb to pluck the low Estring my index finger for the A , middle for the D and so on.
And then there is Travis picking which I haven’t really delved into that much. So which is the better method for developing good habits if I want to get into fingerpicking?

The first way, as others have said. It’s sort of a general rule, as airborne1 said, because it just works out that way most of the time, but there are exceptions. It sometimes sounds better to use your thumb to play notes of the melody that coincide with the beat, and that might happen on the third or second string, which would “break the rule.” Same thing for chords that are played on just the D, G, B and E strings.

Gary Davis and others played mostly with just thumb and index. I'd rather use all my fingers, but it's interesting to experiment with just thumb and index.

[Kerbie]

Originally Posted by reeve21

The first method you describe is pretty conventional. I’ve never heard of the second method.

I agree. I consider the first method listed as sort of the default, but I've never seen the second. The thumb, with the alternating thumb technique, can handle the three bass strings. That lets your index and middle concentrate on the melody.

For me, it varies by song. If I'm Travis picking, I sometimes use thumb and first two fingers... and sometimes thumb and three fingers. There are great players who use both techniques and some, like Merle Travis, who use mostly thumb and index. Different strokes for different folks. I agree with reeve21 that the two books by Mark Hanson are excellent for learning Travis picking. Good luck.

[TBman]

Another recommendation for Mark Hanson's two books on Travis picking. Using the thumb on 6th, 5th and 4th is a good rule.

I generally use the thumb and two fingers, but once I get really comfortable with a tune I will use the ring finger as well.

Many times when I'm concentrating on left hand positions I will just use my thumb and index and go back to the thumb and two/three fingers later. I don't play fast tunes so that's how I get away with it.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by antvas1963

I’m trying to do finger exercises to get a little more control on my right hand as I start to finger pick. Some places that I check on YouTube and online tell me that my thumb is used to pluck the bass strings E,A,and D. Index finger is used for the G string my middle finger is used for the B string in my ring finger is used for the high Estring.

This is the classical convention. It's like a foundation starting position - not a hard and fast rule, but a good one to stick until you actually need to change.
But that's for classical guitar. Not folk or blues fingerstyle...

Originally Posted by antvas1963

Another way I was using my thumb to pluck the low Estring my index finger for the A , middle for the D and so on.

That's very unusual, never considered that before. It would obviously work if what you were playing only used the bottom 4 strings, but that's pretty unusual.

Originally Posted by antvas1963

And then there is Travis picking which I haven’t really delved into that much.

Right. Merle Travis himself only use thumb and index for everything, which is a pretty unique style in itself. (You can see him in videos resting his other three fingers on the scratchplate.)

In the style named after him, though (which he didn't invent, btw...), most people use thumb with at least two fingers (index and middle). Some add the ring finger as an occasional spare, but most tunes in that style only need thumb and one or two fingers.

The thumb is much busier than in classical style, and frequently alternates between any of the 3 bass strings and the G string. The finger (or fingers) will generally only play the top 3 (as in classical style), but any finger can play any string.

Originally Posted by antvas1963

So which is the better method for developing good habits if I want to get into fingerpicking?

Assuming you don't mean classical style, you can be a little more liberal with which fingers go where; although it's sensible not to be too chaotic, because it's all about economy of movement and effort.
The important thing with alternating bass (aka Travis style) is that the thumb keeps the beat - rocking back and forth between two bass strings. Sometimes people trained in classical style want to use thumb and index - if the upper bass string is the G - but that's wrong.

I agree with the usual recommendation for Mark Hanson's book. But also, watch youtubes of the players you want to emulate. It's easy to find footage of almost any of the masters of that style: Doc Watson, Mississippi John Hurt, Rev Gary Davis, Chet Atkins, Travis himself. Only the older originals were never filmed: Blind Blake, Blind Lemon Jefferson and so on. There's just one nice film of Skip James playing in this style (Crow Jane).

[antvas1963]

Originally Posted by JonPR

This is the classical convention. It's like a foundation starting position - not a hard and fast rule, but a good one to stick until you actually need to change.
But that's for classical guitar. Not folk or blues fingerstyle...
That's very unusual, never considered that before. It would obviously work if what you were playing only used the bottom 4 strings, but that's pretty unusual.
Right. Merle Travis himself only use thumb and index for everything, which is a pretty unique style in itself. (You can see him in videos resting his other three fingers on the scratchplate.)

In the style named after him, though (which he didn't invent, btw...), most people use thumb with at least two fingers (index and middle). Some add the ring finger as an occasional spare, but most tunes in that style only need thumb and one or two fingers.

The thumb is much busier than in classical style, and frequently alternates between any of the 3 bass strings and the G string. The finger (or fingers) will generally only play the top 3 (as in classical style), but any finger can play any string.
Assuming you don't mean classical style, you can be a little more liberal with which fingers go where; although it's sensible not to be too chaotic, because it's all about economy of movement and effort.
The important thing with alternating bass (aka Travis style) is that the thumb keeps the beat - rocking back and forth between two bass strings. Sometimes people trained in classical style want to use thumb and index - if the upper bass string is the G - but that's wrong.

I agree with the usual recommendation for Mark Hanson's book. But also, watch youtubes of the players you want to emulate. It's easy to find footage of almost any of the masters of that style: Doc Watson, Mississippi John Hurt, Rev Gary Davis, Chet Atkins, Travis himself. Only the older originals were never filmed: Blind Blake, Blind Lemon Jefferson and so on. There's just one nice film of Skip James playing in this style (Crow Jane).

I really love Justin Johnson’s fingerstyle and slide playing.

[loco gringo]

Pete Huttlinger's stuff on Homespun is good. He has a couple on just practicing and exercises.

https://www.homespun.com/instructors/pete-huttlinger/

[MakingMusic]

The first method you described is the most common “best practice” but in reality, the fingers used on the top 3 strings varies by individual and sometimes by song.

While the thumb is typically assigned to the 6th, 5th and 4th strings, many players seem to use just their index and middle finger for picking the other strings. Using 3 fingers however will give you the most versatility but I’ve also seen some great pickers just using the thumb and index finger.

Personally, I would not spend any time thinking about the second method you described. I don’t think that would be a good “muscle memory” exercise routine at all.

As for Travis picking, I found it gave me a great foundation for picking all styles of music. I took a Toby Walker course and it really helped. I also recommend the Mark Hanson books.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by MakingMusic

The first method you described is the most common “best practice” but in reality, the fingers used on the top 3 strings varies by individual and sometimes by song.

While the thumb is typically assigned to the 6th, 5th and 4th strings, many players seem to use just their index and middle finger for picking the other strings. Using 3 fingers however will give you the most versatility but I’ve also seen some great pickers just using the thumb and index finger.

Personally, I would not spend any time thinking about the second method you described. I don’t think that would be a good “muscle memory” exercise routine at all.

As for Travis picking, I found it gave me a great foundation for picking all styles of music. I took a Toby Walker course and it really helped. I also recommend the Mark Hanson books.

Hi Barry
I taught intermediate and advanced fingerstyle for 39 years locally (for $$$). I always started students with thumb & three fingers.

The three main steel string styles are
Thumb-n-1 (Travis)
Thumb-n-2 fingers
Thumb-n-3 fingers

If one starts with thumb-n-3 it's easier to modify and scale back/vary styles later. Thumb-n-3 fingers make for a more complex chordal approach, smoother play, and covering more ground with less work.

I've had students who came to me already playing thumb-n-1 or thumb-n-2 well, and it was work for them to wrap their heads around the concept of extra available notes with the same amount of work, and runs, and arpeggios with less work. They all saw the advantages right away, but it was probably a 4-6 month conversion to have them playing fluently.

I always had them play any existing repertoire the way they learned it, and we only moved forward with new music and using scales and exercises to 'add' the full Thumb-n-3 techniques.

I've run into professionals (playing full time for a living) who argued that thumb-n-2 was best. And I'd say for them it was. If a player has adapted everything to a particular style, and have played the style for over 20 years, they own it, understand and instantly adapt everything to it.

It's really fun to see Thom Bresh (Merle Travis' son) who is an amazing thumb-n-three guy try to play in thumb-n-1. He can do it if he concentrates, but the minute he begins to focus on singing or anything else, he's right back to thumb-n-3.

Once learned I've never had a student not easily adapt passages to whatever amount of fingers were most efficient.

[EZYPIKINS]

Being self taught. Benn playing since I was 10. Now just shy of 60. I use all 5 fingers on right hand. Try this. Grab the strings, like a claw. Pinky on string 1. Ring finger on string 2. Ect. Thumb can alternate strings 4, 5m and 6. This way I can use the strings as a sort of Brail. So I know where I'm at.

[MakingMusic]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

If one starts with thumb-n-3 it's easier to modify and scale back/vary styles later. Thumb-n-3 fingers make for a more complex chordal approach, smoother play, and covering more ground with less work.

You are absolutely right, Larry. Always best to learn the proper technicals and then scale back from there. I should have had you as a teacher because as I've progressed in my playing, I now know that thumb and 3 fingers is ideal. However many, including myself, have learned the thumb and 2-finger method.

Although the naysayers can rightly point to many amazing musicians who play with only thumb and 1 or 2 fingers, you are at a disadvantage if you don't use all 3.