give up on electric? Or just get a better one?

[ssjk]

Summary: I bought an Ibanez AF75-FM a couple of years ago to give electric a try, but it didn’t take. Do I need a better guitar to give it a fair shake? Or should I accept that the guitar is fine but there’s a non-trivial learning curve transitioning to electric, so I should just decide whether I want to put in the effort?

A bit more detail:

I’ve been playing for 50+ years and have at most 10 total hours in on electrics. My playing tends toward bluegrass, old time, classic country, folk, etc., plus pop stuff that lends itself to acoustic guitar. I’m primarily a singer who plays to accompany myself and others. Can play fairly complex finger style stuff, but not good at all at flat picked leads. I do play out occasionally but mostly just get together with a group of friends or for my own amusement.

Nothing I play requires electric, but I wanted to make sure I’m not missing out on something. So a couple of years ago I decided to give electric a try and bought myself an inexpensive try out guitar. Ibanez AF75-FM. I’d say at most 4 of those ten total hours playing electric were with this one. So you can see it didn’t exactly take.

My reactions to the Ibanez - plays OK and feels fine. Seems to be OK when amplified and adequate for practicing when not. Never seems to stay in tune. Even when in tune with strings open, never seems to sound right when I play something. Fretted notes frequently seem off.

Compensation seems fine comparing open and octave, either fretted or harmonic. So my guess is I am fretting too hard and/or bending strings a bit using my normal acoustic guitar grip. Part of the learning curve maybe due to light strings? And if so, a better guitar won’t help unless I want to string it up with something like the 11/52 sets I use on my dreads.

Maybe I should try that.

Thoughts welcome from those who play both, especially if you moved to electric after years as an acoustic-only player.

[1neeto]

I think you just answered your own question. That Ibanez is an affordable guitar, but not a cheap guitar by any means. If the intonation is good open/fretted/harmonic, then like you said, your problem is with your fingers. That guitar has medium sized frets, not jumbo, but they still require way less pressure than an acoustic to make the notes ring clear.

[ghostnote]

It sounds like you just don't like electric guitars, but you've only played them for 10 hours - not a lot by any definition. I'd bet you weren't too keen on the acoustic guitar after only 10 hours, either. Go to a music store and play some other electrics and see how they feel to you. It's possible that it IS the guitar. Just as acoustics have endless possibilities, electrics can also do fantastic things that no acoustic ever could. I could never do without either.

[stokes1971]

Back in the day I was strictly acoustic player, from about '63 to '73.I got interested in blues,electric blues.So I bought an electric and took to it so much,I didnt touch an acoustic til 2019.Now I made the switch for a definate reason,I wanted to learn a particular style that required an electric.It sounds like you dont have a solid reason to want to play an electric.As far as the out of tune fingering thing,a band I was in needed a new rhythm guitarist.We got a local guy who was a very good acoustic player to step up.Guy couldnt finger a chord in tune to save his life on the electric.It was visually evident that he was squeezing too hard and skewing the fingering something awful.We worked with him for quite a while but he just couldnt relax his fingering.The bass player switched with him and became our rhythm player and he became our bassist.He never did get the hang of the electric, some guys are just meant to play acoustic, I guess.I would suggest having the Ibanez set up by someone that knows how to do it and stick with it,if you are so inclined, but I wouldnt go buying a "better" electric until you are sure you want to play an electric.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by ssjk

...Thoughts welcome from those who play both, especially if you moved to electric after years as an acoustic-only player.

Fellow old fart (been playing since 1962, electric since 1964) here:

• You have a fairly decent guitar for a first go-round; while we AGF'ers can always justify the purchase of another guitar (just ask my wife) - and my personal preferences run to the Korean-made Gretsch Electromatic 5400-Series hollows in this general price bracket - you've got a solid platform that won't impede your progress with the flaws and foibles that afflicted the trainwreck beginner instruments of our day...
• If Chet Atkins, Merle Travis, Jerry Reed, and Mark Knopfler can fingerpick electric, so can you - which leads me to:
• Ten hours over a lifetime is not enough time to acquire any skill to a meaningful extent; electric is a very different animal with its own distinct skill set (both right- and left-hand), and you'll need to put in the woodshedding time - including flatpick fechnique (get a knowledgeable friend to guide you if necessary) - to get the most out of it...
• Speaking as one who doubles on acoustic and electric regularly in performance, ditch the skinny strings - especially the plain G - in favor of something closer to your preferred acoustic setup (PSA: if you're using monels they also work on electric - they were the go-to string before LaBella developed flatwounds in the early-1940's)...
• Unless you're going to be cleaning/oiling the fingerboard always change the strings one at a time, stretching them well as you tune them to final pitch - unlike a pin-bridge flattop there's the added element of the trapeze tailpiece, and IME that too takes a bit of time to settle into place after a restringing...

Give it a real try - buy/beg/borrow/steal a nice low-/mid-powered tube or analog solid-state amp (avoid the modeling stuff at this point - another batch of unnecessary complications you don't need) and let us know next Thanksgiving how you're doing...

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

I think you just answered your own question. That Ibanez is an affordable guitar, but not a cheap guitar by any means. If the intonation is good open/fretted/harmonic, then like you said, your problem is with your fingers. That guitar has medium sized frets, not jumbo, but they still require way less pressure than an acoustic to make the notes ring clear.

Right, but still it could help to go to bigger strings, especially since it sounds like he is just strumming and fingerpicking.

[rwmct]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

[*]If Chet Atkins, Merle Travis, Jerry Reed, and Mark Knopfler can fingerpick electric, so can you -

Not to mention Johnny Winter. Clearly, one can lay down some furious blues leads finger picking.

[ssjk]

Thanks to all for the replies. I was pretty sure it was operator error but thought I’d check with folks who would know.

Funny. The other day I happened across the Chet Atkins Certified Guitar Player special from the 90s I think. Watching Mark Knopfler on that show was what prompted me to take the Ibanez off the wall again.

I’ll put some thicker strings on it and see if that makes a difference for me.

[Steel and wood]

Spend more time with the instrument, playing it like you would your acoustic (strumming/flat picking) before you start bending/pre-bending strings, applying vibrato, etc. (Stuff that's a lot harder and not really done on an acoustic).

If you want to accompany yourself on your electric, low volume using a clean tone.

Good luck!

[rmp]

I expect what others are saying.

Not being a wise guy but it is probably your technique that has developed from playing acoustic with much heavier strings. I'd try a heavier gauge if I was in your shoes.

I used to teach quite a bit, and I taught a few guys who by day were contractors. Work they'd been doing for years. They had hands like stones. The pressure they applied to the neck when playing was brutal.

They could never play a chord and make it sound in tune.

That's probably similar to what you're encountering.

[RoyBoy]

Originally Posted by ssjk

Thanks to all for the replies. I was pretty sure it was operator error but thought I’d check with folks who would know.

Funny. The other day I happened across the Chet Atkins Certified Guitar Player special from the 90s I think. Watching Mark Knopfler on that show was what prompted me to take the Ibanez off the wall again.

I’ll put some thicker strings on it and see if that makes a difference for me.

Archtops do like heavier strings and I think you'd find 11s feeling slinky and 12s will give you some body to the tone. Two important factors you maybe overlooking:

*the guitar you bought doesn't fit any of the genres you're currently playing. That guitar is made for playing jazz, traditional or fusion. Perhaps some blues if you push it hard. Humbucker pickups are about as far away from acoustic response as you can get.

*the amp is at least 50% of the equation for sound. A crummy amp is going to sound crummy even with a nice guitar through it, and that is a quite nice guitar you got, you'll have to spend at least that much on an amp to assess the guitar fairly

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by RoyBoy

...*the guitar you bought doesn't fit any of the genres you're currently playing. That guitar is made for playing jazz, traditional or fusion. Perhaps some blues if you push it hard. Humbucker pickups are about as far away from acoustic response as you can get.

*the amp is at least 50% of the equation for sound. A crummy amp is going to sound crummy even with a nice guitar through it, and that is a quite nice guitar you got, you'll have to spend at least that much on an amp to assess the guitar fairly

In order:

• Lots of late-50's R&R/rockabilly was made on the first generation of humbucker-equipped hollowbodies - while you'll never get an "acoustic" sound IME the right choice of strings/picks can brighten up the tone sufficiently, which leads me to:
• Agreed (this point was touched on in post #5), and a brighter-sounding amp could go a long way in this area; while I wouldn't suggest a Vibrolux Reverb or Super Reverb at this point, I've seen '70s/80s Randall RG-120 2x10" SS combos selling in the low/mid-$200 bracket (4x10's are rare - and more expensive), and Eminence has a line of replacement speakers that allow you to customize the tone of virtually any amp for around $100;

In short, it's not like the early-60's when I was getting into the game - plenty of options out there for tweaking your personal tone...

[ssjk]

Thanks for the follow up comments. Not looking for an acoustic tone really. Have plenty of that and some of my acoustics can plug in. Really was just looking for a different clean tone to add fills and simple leads to stuff like Mamma Tried

Amp I have is a Fishman Loudbox Artist that I bought at the same time I bought the guitar. Strange - sounded fine when the guy at the store played it....

Don't have any monel strings in the box, so will have to go get some. Will try to do that today - I'll let you know if that helps.

[varmonter]

You might take the guitar to a competent
Electric guitar tech. Ask him for
A setup or just have him look it
Over ..couldnt hurt. Electrics take
Some practice ..but if it's not set up
well it could certainly discourage
you..like an acoustic with a dobro action.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by ssjk

...Not looking for an acoustic tone really. Have plenty of that and some of my acoustics can plug in. Really was just looking for a different clean tone to add fills and simple leads to stuff like Mamma Tried...

Amp I have is a Fishman Loudbox Artist that I bought at the same time I bought the guitar. Strange - sounded fine when the guy at the store played it...

In order:

• Perfect fare for a first excursion into electric guitar; FYI my last band used to do it (a kinda fusion of Merle's original and the Dead's cover), and while I've used a P-90 LP and a Gretsch semi in performance, my favorite guitar for that song is my Godin CW II - a single-cutaway two-pickup rockabilly/jazzbox similar to your own...
• While the pristine cleans of a Fishman Loudbox may work well for straight-up jazz, you'll want something with a bit of natural grit for the type of material you're doing - if you've got around $400 to spend this one'll take you from the bedroom to the stage with no loss of tone at lower volumes:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tube-combo-amp[/QUOTE]