Issues with UPS denying a claim

[Christian Reno]

A crack CAN happen even if there is no obvious visible damage to the over-pack. UPS looks at the box and if there isn’t a caved-in corner or a big hole in it, they say it’s just normal creasing, crinkling etc. from the handling of the box on its journey. It’s happened to me.

There is always the chance that it is NOT cracked and the receiver made a false identification of a crack. Wait until you get it back and inspect it yourself. If there is indeed a crack that wasn’t there before shipping, don’t let up on UPS.

I agree with others who have said FedEx is a better option in the future.

[blindboyjimi]

Originally Posted by justonwo

Without any evidence of how the guitar was packed, there is no way to prove UPS was at fault for damaging the guitar, particularly if there was no damage to the box. You really have to be able to make your case with documentation. If you want to buy and sell guitars, you really must have them insured by Heritage. Since they deal specifically with guitars, filing a claim is much more straightforward.

Regardless, it is much better to pack the guitar yourself and take photos. There’s no magic to it. Make sure the headstock is properly supported by packing the headstock compartment with bubble wrap or packing paper. Then use heavy construction paper to box the guitar up.

This^^. I’m no dealer but I buy and sell often (At least 50x in 15 years) so I carry a Heritage dealer policy. It covers all guitars, all the time regardless. I’ve had claims denied by USPS, FedEx and UPS. I see posts here every few months the exact same with a different carrier. They all carry 3rd party insurance and you will have no recourse. Sorry. 99%+ go through fine. I just shipped my 1937 000-18 and received my 1936 000-18 with FedEx and UPS. No problems.

[29er]

I'm seven weeks into a similar story with Fedex. At least UPS came and actually inspected the guitar. Fedex denied my claim and won't even inspect it. I won't go into details here but I have learned my lesson. I will insure my other instruments through Heritage and I'm probably through buying/selling if shipping is involved. Fedex will never get another dime from me.

And, since my claim has not been settled they told me that instrument should not be shipped back to me because it may be further damged. NO $*^T? So after five weeks of waiting on Fedex to even make a decision on the claim I reimbursed a very patient buyer and told him not to ship it back. I asked Fedex if I could pick up the guitar myself and bring it home and they granted permission for that. One damaged guitar, several days of my time traveling to retrieve my damaged guitar, and hundreds of dollars in travel costs I am left with a damaged instrument. Good luck.

[seannx]

Originally Posted by 29er

I'm seven weeks into a similar story with Fedex. At least UPS came and actually inspected the guitar. Fedex denied my claim and won't even inspect it. I won't go into details here but I have learned my lesson. I will insure my other instruments through Heritage and I'm probably through buying/selling if shipping is involved. Fedex will never get another dime from me.

And, since my claim has not been settled they told me that instrument should not be shipped back to me because it may be further damged. NO $*^T? So after five weeks of waiting on Fedex to even make a decision on the claim I reimbursed a very patient buyer and told him not to ship it back. I asked Fedex if I could pick up the guitar myself and bring it home and they granted permission for that. One damaged guitar, several days of my time traveling to retrieve my damaged guitar, and hundreds of dollars in travel costs I am left with a damaged instrument. Good luck.

Threatening legal action as part of the appeal can work for claims denied by FEDEX and the USPS, as long as you have supporting evidence and maximum persistence.

[Rev Roy]

Today I finally did what I should have done long ago. I signed up for Heritage Insurance. Protects all my guitars from every conceivable risk...including damage during shipping. No deductible. $250 a year. Well worth it...

[derekbertman]

Originally Posted by 29er

I'm seven weeks into a similar story with Fedex. At least UPS came and actually inspected the guitar. Fedex denied my claim and won't even inspect it. I won't go into details here but I have learned my lesson. I will insure my other instruments through Heritage and I'm probably through buying/selling if shipping is involved. Fedex will never get another dime from me.

And, since my claim has not been settled they told me that instrument should not be shipped back to me because it may be further damged. NO $*^T? So after five weeks of waiting on Fedex to even make a decision on the claim I reimbursed a very patient buyer and told him not to ship it back. I asked Fedex if I could pick up the guitar myself and bring it home and they granted permission for that. One damaged guitar, several days of my time traveling to retrieve my damaged guitar, and hundreds of dollars in travel costs I am left with a damaged instrument. Good luck.

I'm in the same boat right now I believe with them UPS holding onto it. There has been no update since July 31st. Anytime I talk to someone they pass it off to the next person saying I will be contacted by such and such date and time and when that time comes and goes, they give me the same recycled response. Heritage will definitely be utilized in the future (if there is a future with me selling a guitar).

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Today I finally did what I should have done long ago. I signed up for Heritage Insurance. Protects all my guitars from every conceivable risk...including damage during shipping. No deductible. $250 a year. Well worth it...

Maybe you had the same reaction as me. They said that amount would cover up to $30,000 in instruments. I thought to myself, I need to start adding to my collection!

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Today I finally did what I should have done long ago. I signed up for Heritage Insurance. Protects all my guitars from every conceivable risk...including damage during shipping. No deductible. $250 a year. Well worth it...

Rev -- I saw your signature, what happened to the D35?

[milerun]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

Today I finally did what I should have done long ago. I signed up for Heritage Insurance. Protects all my guitars from every conceivable risk...including damage during shipping. No deductible. $250 a year. Well worth it...

Yep, I did the same thing a couple months ago. Shipped a few guitars, sweated bullets a few days until I heard all was swell on the other end, and decided it wasn't worth the hassle. And no longer have to worry about anything.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

Rev -- I saw your signature, what happened to the D35?

It was a toss up between the D-35 and J-45. I waited almost a month for my shop to get in the 35 they were expecting. But when they finally picked up their Martin order there was no 35. They don’t know when they’ll get one now...which made my decision easier. J-45 arrives tomorrow.

[derekbertman]

Update: Day 15 since filling the claim

After the claim being denied by UPS, I disputed the claim and raised enough hell that I was given access to the claims adjuster from Coleman and Co - UPS 3rd party claims advisor for high value items (+$2500).

UPS initially denied the claim saying the box was not damaged, insufficient packaging and that they couldn't see any damage. I received the guitar back on the 4th and the box looks like it was beat with a baseball bat and the neck is cracked. Packaging inside is so tight that you have to take everything out of the box just to get the case out of the box. Additionally, there was a another piece of the 2 play cardboard I inserted into the box for extra cushioning. I am 99% sure UPS didn't even look at the package let alone inspect it.

So I am in contact with the claims adjuster, send her 29 different pictures of the wreckage that is my package over 7 different emails ( 9 MB limit per email). Come to find out she is just the package inspector but she finds that it was sufficiently packaged and approves the packaging. Now in 7-14 business days I'll get a claim form in the mail that I will need to fill out and return and then who knows how long that will take.

So it looks like there is some light at the end of the tunnel, UPS is gonna pay up (at least something). The buyer was very patient until I received the guitar back and his patience came to an end. I am still more than likely months away from receiving any sort of compensation and have to figure out a way to refund him $3600+ ASAP or I'll be facing legal action against me.

Heritage Insurance in the future or bust! I had no idea about Heritage until I started this thread, I just thought following all packaging guidelines and getting insurance would be sufficient but I should have known never to trust a big business like that. I think in these guitar forums Heritage or other insurance companies like it should have higher visibility, especially in the buy/sell rooms.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by derekbertman

Update: Day 15 since filling the claim

After the claim being denied by UPS, I disputed the claim and raised enough hell that I was given access to the claims adjuster from Coleman and Co - UPS 3rd party claims advisor for high value items (+$2500).

UPS initially denied the claim saying the box was not damaged, insufficient packaging and that they couldn't see any damage. I received the guitar back on the 4th and the box looks like it was beat with a baseball bat and the neck is cracked. Packaging inside is so tight that you have to take everything out of the box just to get the case out of the box. Additionally, there was a another piece of the 2 play cardboard I inserted into the box for extra cushioning. I am 99% sure UPS didn't even look at the package let alone inspect it.

So I am in contact with the claims adjuster, send her 29 different pictures of the wreckage that is my package over 7 different emails ( 9 MB limit per email). Come to find out she is just the package inspector but she finds that it was sufficiently packaged and approves the packaging. Now in 7-14 business days I'll get a claim form in the mail that I will need to fill out and return and then who knows how long that will take.

So it looks like there is some light at the end of the tunnel, UPS is gonna pay up (at least something). The buyer was very patient until I received the guitar back and his patience came to an end. I am still more than likely months away from receiving any sort of compensation and have to figure out a way to refund him $3600+ ASAP or I'll be facing legal action against me.

Heritage Insurance in the future or bust! I had no idea about Heritage until I started this thread, I just thought following all packaging guidelines and getting insurance would be sufficient but I should have known never to trust a big business like that. I think in these guitar forums Heritage or other insurance companies like it should have higher visibility, especially in the buy/sell rooms.

That sucks! However, he paid you that money. You hadn't already spent it had you? Should be easy enough to send the money back. You'll definitely be down a guitar in the meantime but still you should be made whole at some point.

[TJNies]

Originally Posted by derekbertman

So it looks like there is some light at the end of the tunnel, UPS is gonna pay up (at least something). The buyer was very patient until I received the guitar back and his patience came to an end. I am still more than likely months away from receiving any sort of compensation and have to figure out a way to refund him $3600+ ASAP or I'll be facing legal action against me.

This is precisely the reason I do not touch the funds until the buyer receives the guitar and is happy.

[seannx]

UPS initially denied the claim saying the box was not damaged, insufficient packaging and that they couldn't see any damage. I received the guitar back on the 4th and the box looks like it was beat with a baseball bat and the neck is cracked. Packaging inside is so tight that you have to take everything out of the box just to get the case out of the box. Additionally, there was a another piece of the 2 play cardboard I inserted into the box for extra cushioning. I am 99% sure UPS didn't even look at the package let alone inspect it.

Even if the box had shown damage and was noted on delivery by the driver, the UPS claim most probably would have been denied for insufficient packaging. I’ve had that happen with USPS, too, on a high value item. You have to appeal, be super persistent, supply documentation, and stay on the case. If repeatedly denied, play the "I’m going to take legal action" card.

That’s why the only way we ship expensive items via UPS now is through one of their local stores that is part of the UPS "pack and ship guarantee" program. The store packs the item, and it costs more, but any damage claim will be promptly paid.

Take photos of the item when you drop it off at the store. As a guitar's neck can be cracked or broken without visible damage to the box, make sure to have pics of that area. Anything less and you will waste more time and energy fighting the claim denial than the additional UPS "pack and ship guarantee" up charge. While most guitars will arrive okay, occasionally there will be damage, and unless you have insurance from a company like Heritage, you will be stuck fighting the claim.