The Inevitable Aging Process

[rokdog49]

I suspect a goodly portion of us active forum members are In their 60’s and seventies.
If one or more of your parents is still alive, you are probably familiar with the physical and mental health issues associated with folks in their eighties and nineties. I don’t want to get into anything too controversial here, but it seems the term “quality of life” can be seen as a misnomer as most don’t have it. Even on Their “good days”, my dad and my wife’s parents are basically existing.
From a mental health standpoint they struggle with being alive as there is no apparent reason for their existence. We tell them that they are important to us and we cherish them being here. That takes care of a few hours a week for them mentally, but the rest of the time they are despondent and depressed.
Their bad days are when the symptoms of their failing bodies cause pain, suffering and the inability to do the simplest of things normally.
In closing, I really wonder what if “Modern Medicine” isn’t after all, Pandora’s Box.
We all want to live as long as we can, that’s pretty normal. I don’t think what I see in our parents is “living”.
My wife’s blood father died of a stroke in his early eighties. He had lived a pretty healthy, normal life up to that time.
Lucky guy.

[rllink]

Its is interesting to me as well. I turned seventy last month, and while I am active and in relative good health, I feel it. This year I can't mow my lawn in one go at it. I have to stop about two thirds through and have a cold beer and rest. My in-laws live close and are in their late eighties. My mother-in-law is going strong and my father-in-law can hardly get out of a chair without help. I'm watching them and trying to decide what caused the difference. I think there might be some factors, and from what I'm seeing I'm hoping I'm going in the same direction as my mother-in-law. The next decade will probably determine if I'm right.

[J Patrick]

...all we can do is give ourselves the best chance to grow old gracefully and as free of pain and illness as possible....diet and exercise...the only options that can truly make a difference...

[buddyhu]

What you describe is distressing to read about. However, not everyone follows that pattern. My Mom was vital and happy until shortly before her death from cancer shortly before she turned 84. My Dad had dementia for the last 10 or 12 years of his life, but in his last years he seemed to be very happy, even though he was in assisted living and memory care for his last 6 years (after my Mom died). My in laws agreed that things were good until their mid-80’s, and then things declined...but I did not see or hear about the kind of despondency you are describing Rokdog. They lived with my wife’s sister and her husband for most of their final years. And I have had a lot of contact with elderly neighbors on their 90’s. They have often seemed pretty happy with their simple lives, until the very end, and grateful for little gestures (such as occasionally dropping of a home cooked meal of inviting them for dinner with us.


While I understand that aging is challenging and can be a source of great suffering, I don’t want us to paint with strokes that are too broad. Loss and difficulty doesn’t necessarily mean depression and despair.

[BrunoBlack]

I see both. My grandmother lived to be 105 and had a ball until 103+, then started to get less out of life, but still wanted to live fiercely. My mom and dad are both 94. Your description fits my dad pretty well. He’s hanging on to be with my mom. My mother is a fire cracker. She’s had rods put in her back, hips replaced, and last year she had major surgery and chemo for ovarian cancer. She stunned her doctors when they asked after 6 months into recovery — How are doing with your recovery? She said — Well ok I guess. I’ve only been able to play 9 holes of golf and had to use a cart. This blew the doctor away. They both live alone in their own home with very little help. Mom drives and still lives well.

So I guess it depends.

[raysachs]

If you live a healthy life, that probably improves the odds of getting farther into whatever your natural life span is with relatively high levels of activity and "quality" of life. But no matter how you live, so much of it is just down to blind chance. My Dad lived to be 88 and he was fully mentally engaged up to his last couple of months. He didn't live all that healthy a life, but he didn't have any really bad habits either. My mom, if anything, lived a healthier life, but she developed a benign brain tumor that was pressing on stuff and starting to cause cognitive issues and when they took it out when she was 71, some wires got cut, and her short term memory was basically shot after that. She was just confused and frustrated and got progressively worse and worse and died shortly after she turned 80. I loved her but there wasn't really anyone there to interact with by a couple years after her surgery. She still loved my little girls and she could read them a story, but if they asked her a question, she generally couldn't answer it.

She didn't do anything wrong, he didn't do anything right, just the luck of the draw. With this freaking pandemic, I'd have to say that none of us in the 50+ category can say confidently we'll still be here in two weeks. We can improve our odds, but that's about it. And if we get it and live through it, who knows what other damage it does that will affect us for the rest of our days, and may significantly limit them? This is such a new thing the docs are still figuring it out.

-Ray

[Mr. Jelly]

My perception and your perception and others perception of "living" may vary. Feeling a breeze may be reason enough to live. Projecting our own thoughts and issues on others is often a failed task. I and others have adjusted our thinking and our feelings about many things as we age. It's not all bad. There's more to life then being young and healthy. Allot of aspects of life are hard and aging is one of them. A person lives life to the end. I can't imagine any other way. You take what you get and deal with it the best you can.

[jpd]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

...all we can do is give ourselves the best chance to grow old gracefully and as free of pain and illness as possible....diet and exercise...the only options that can truly make a difference...

+1.....As a member of the 70's club, I can attest to the wonders of this. My children are now in their 30's, and can truly appreciate what a plant based diet has done for them and theirs-and for me! They have an extensive knowledge and a thirst for learning about all things plant based and how this lifestyle affects the human condition.
Infirmities do pop up, but they are overcome with a finer approach to life. IMO, this is the best way to take care of yourself. Plus some G.A.S. now and then helps too!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I suspect a goodly portion of us active forum members are In their 60’s and seventies.
If one or more of your parents is still alive, you are probably familiar with the physical and mental health issues associated with folks in their eighties and nineties. I don’t want to get into anything too controversial here, but it seems the term “quality of life” can be seen as a misnomer as most don’t have it. Even on Their “good days”, my dad and my wife’s parents are basically existing.
From a mental health standpoint they struggle with being alive as there is no apparent reason for their existence. We tell them that they are important to us and we cherish them being here. That takes care of a few hours a week for them mentally, but the rest of the time they are despondent and depressed.
Their bad days are when the symptoms of their failing bodies cause pain, suffering and the inability to do the simplest of things normally.
In closing, I really wonder what if “Modern Medicine” isn’t after all, Pandora’s Box.
We all want to live as long as we can, that’s pretty normal. I don’t think what I see in our parents is “living”.
My wife’s blood father died of a stroke in his early eighties. He had lived a pretty healthy, normal life up to that time.
Lucky guy.

You bring up an interesting situation - medical science has figured out how to cause us to live much longer, but society has not yet figured out what to do with us. Social Security was inaugurated back when people only lived a couple of years into retirement, not 30 or more. With demise of pensions and my baby boomer generation's propensity for our wants/needs being larger than our wallets, and we have a real problem on our hands.

As another poster mentioned, quality of life can mean different things to different people. For me, it means being able to function well enough on my own with my mind intact. Beyond that, I fully realize that I become both a financial and a physical burden to myself, family, and society. I don't want that at all. I think going on with this line of thought might be outside the boundaries of the forum, but I think I have provided enough to draw the obvious conclusion. Note that I am only speaking for myself here, rather than imposing my own perspective on others who might feel differently about all or part of what I have said.

Tony

[Bob Womack]

You know, I've watched a bunch of fitness types die early over the years. The longer I'm around, the more it seems to me that a lot of this is genetics. Apparently DNA not only contains genetic sequencing but AGE information. If you clone an eight-year-old sheep, you don't get a baby sheep, you get a sheep that starts life at eight years old, meaning that at best it only has about four years of life left. Lifespan is coded into DNA and lifespan is relative to the inherited DNA as well. It is all built into the expected lifespan of each system and organ. As of right now we haven't really figured a cheat.

So, where does that leave us?

You can go out raging against your lot or you can come to grips with it and be at peace with it. Anecdote time.

My father was the most intelligent person I ever knew. He had a 160 IQ, just like Einstein. He was one of the "greatest generation." He was an environmental scientist and systems engineer and represented the U.S. all over the world by carrying out pollution studies for NOAA. He tried to retire at a reasonable age but kept being called back to design measurement systems for emerging problems. This was a man who was always learning. He had a machine shop at home and could repair nearly anything and build all kinds of things. I've got a lovely little pen and ink sketch of a sailing barque that he did at one point with all her sails bent and running before the wind, that is both artistically beautiful and technically accurate. He was a true renaissance, interdisciplinary man.

Eventually, when he reached about 86 years old, he began having problems with "process." It started with him setting down his coffee cup in the middle of his plate of food, and not knowing why. It proceeded into him not being able to do some basic stuff like button his shirt. Unbeknownst to anyone, he had begun having micro-strokes with the result that he was experiencing dementia. He was informed about the dementia and that there was no useful treatment, and decided to be at peace with it. The first time he made a mistake in the car he turned off the engine, pulled out the keys, and said to my mom, "I can't do this anymore." Eventually it proceeded to aphasia, an inability to put together sentences. When he began falling and my mother couldn't get him back up, it became clear that he would have to go into an assisted living facility. The family gathered for a last meal together. At the end of the meal, he took pains to put together the words to let everyone know that he understood he needed to go into the facility and was good with it. He was worried about our lot.

For two more years he went downhill to where he was in and out. When I visited, I would see glimmers of dad in there, often little things he did with his eyes to make me laugh. Eventually it all caught up with him and he wound down. He died at 89 in 2015. He was my best friend, before I got married. But you know, it wasn't traumatic. You know why? I was asked to write his obituary and to give his eulogy. A key point that occurred to me in both his obituary and eulogy was that my father was a man who was at peace with his God and his world. He approached death the same way he approached life: with dignity, humor, logic, and peace.

I was inspired.

Bob

[Tico]

The problem these days is we're living too long.

The specifications in the back of the "Human Owner's Manual" says the human body lasts around 40 years, not 80.

[merlin666]

It is a sore topic for me. My mother lives alone on another continent. So I try to visit at least once a year to look after the house and other things. We were supposed to go this May to celebrate her 85th birthday. Now there is only uncertainty when reasonable travel will be possible again. Her expected loss of function and death sure are a huge source of worry.

[Riverwolf]

For me, at 63, the main problem is that my body is aging faster than my mind.
My brain seems to think it is always 30.
My body says otherwise.
Sad truth that a lot of older folks are basically just waiting to die.
I hope to not get to that point.

[Edgar Poe]

My Mom turned 93 yesterday. It breaks my heart to see her as she is now. Barely 6 years ago She was running and even went bowling. One day she tripped over Her back door threshold and broke Her left wrist. She is right handed. However it effected Her somewhat as the healing did not end up correct. About 2 years later one of our dogs bumped her and she fell and broke her left hip. That turned out to bother Her from then on. The to top it off She fell again and broke Her right hip. Now She has both artificial hips. She recently had a very minor episode but caused a fracture of Her pelvis. The Doctor told Her She had to be extremely careful not to fall again for two months as if She broke Her pelvis She may very well not survive that. Now She is basically restricted to Her home where She lives alone. I share the property with Her and have a separate house, but She longs to get out and do some yard work but can't any longer. I try to be as interactive as I can, but I still see She's quite depressed at times for Her situation.
She is very strong willed and will not give up.

Ed

[guitargabor]

In my experience after 35 years practicing medicine this is what I have observed:

Most of the over 85 crowd whose lives were extended by "modern medicine" did not enjoy a good quality of life.They suffered from more complications,with resulting re hospitalizations and overtime spent in ERs and physicians office appointments.Many were on kidney dialysis which occupied a third of their waking hours.Multiple medications tend to react with each other more severely in the elderly etc...

Many of those folks already had chronic disease or led difficult lifestyles when they were younger.

I remember a 95 year old fellow accompanied by his son.The son's first words as they entered my office were:"Wow, look at him he's 95!"
That scene is not something I aspire to....

Its is certainly a sensitive and complicated issue.

A phrase I recall in a novel discussing old age kind of hit home to me:

"Afraid of dying, but tired of living...."