The Perfect Rhythm Player?

taygull · #1 07-27-2004, 07:50 PM

Serious question for those who have played in a band.

Let's assume you are the "#1" musician in your band. Your going to play some country and classic rock, mixed in with some original tunes.

Define the roll of a true "Rhythm Guitar Player". What do you need him to be and what do you need him (or her) "not to be"?

I know this can be subjective as to how many players are in the band but let's make some basic assumptions. You have a very good lead player, solid vocalist, good bass player, drummer, and every now and then you may have a fiddle player and or a lap/steel guitarist.

Do you see the Rhythm player doing basic strumming and being an extension of the drummer or what?

I would love to hear from those who have played in successful bands and done a good number of gigs.

tac5 · #2 07-27-2004, 09:22 PM

I've just gone brain dead at the moment, but the latest issue of Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an interview with long time bluegrass player ____?____ and he gives the best description of playing rhythm I have ever read. I'm sorry I can't remember his name. He has just released his first solo CD, but has been playing with everyone who's anyone for the last twenty years. You'll find your answer there in the interview. Somebody help me out, it's been a long day. His name is on the tip of my tongue. It's the September issue.

taygull · #3 07-27-2004, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tac5

I've just gone brain dead at the moment, but the latest issue of Acoustic Guitar Magazine has an interview with long time bluegrass player ____?____ and he gives the best description of playing rhythm I have ever read. I'm sorry I can't remember his name. He has just released his first solo CD, but has been playing with everyone who's anyone for the last twenty years. You'll find your answer there in the interview. Somebody help me out, it's been a long day. His name is on the tip of my tongue. It's the September issue.

tac5, I've asked before where are you "way north of Dallas"?

tac5 · #4 07-27-2004, 10:08 PM

Hey taygull,
I work for the Denton Fire Department but I have lived north of Whitesboro for the last eight years. I'm way out in the country northwest of Sherman about 25 miles. I found that "little bit of paradise" I was looking for, twenty odd acres and a lot of trees and water. I'm slowly drifting back into the serious side of music; I played pro for about fifteen years before I found the fire service. My girlfriend isn't too happy I think about the resurrection of this part of my heart and soul. Not many people who are not musicians can understand it. First it was the two new Taylors, then the pickups and preamps, now I'm looking at upgrading the home studio. It's a money issue. But it's also a sanity issue for me. I gave up playing for a few years and it was a terrible mistake. Music is too much a part of me. I could go on but you know what I mean.

taygull · #5 07-27-2004, 11:01 PM

tac5, one of the guys I play with lives in Sherman. He is a big part of the North Texas Singer Songwriters Assoc, that meets in Sherman. His name on the forum is "A1rh0pper", you should jam with us sometime.

815C · #6 07-28-2004, 06:29 AM

A good rythym player should:

1. Be able to keep time like a metromone if the drummer is not playing.

2. Not overplay - just fill in the right spots - listening to the overall sound of the band and not just his guitar. (Listen to some recordings of the Eagles and concentrate on how little the rythym guitar does on some songs.)

Gear_Junky · #7 07-28-2004, 10:45 AM

When we formed a "band" with 2 of my friends, one of them started learning the drums, the other knew how to strum chords and sing. I started learning bass guitar. The guitarist also knew a couple of solos from songs we liked. Eventually I was able to teach a few simple bass lines to other friends so I could play some lead.

The drummer was improving nicely. I don't wanna brag, but I was learning too. But my problem with the guitarist was that he kept labeling himself a "rhythm guitarist" and that was the excuse for not learning new things - scales, music theory, etc. That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard! Now, you don't have to be a virtuoso lead player, but even just learning some new chord inversions, learning "electric rhythm guitar" vs. acoustic and doing some simple runs would be cool.

Personally I feel that "rhythm guitarist" or "lead guitarist" is not an occupation. It's more like a role you can play for some songs. It's good to be both.

So, to me there's no such thing as a "rhythm guitarist", only a "guitarist". And they fall in several categories - some of them lame. I consider the lazy ones to be the lamest.

taygull · #8 07-28-2004, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gear_Junky

So, to me there's no such thing as a "rhythm guitarist", only a "guitarist". And they fall in several categories - some of them lame. I consider the lazy ones to be the lamest.

Agree but I disagree, I have found in any endeavor it is important to define rolls. Each person must be responsible for "their part". To me a rhythm guitarist must make sure he, the drummer and bass player provide the "constant" in the music. This is a place where the lead player, vocalist, or other feature instruments can rely on. Of course the lead player may need to do some fills and riffs.

I'm looking for some experience from a group who has played a significant amount "gig" time!

Gear_Junky · #9 07-28-2004, 03:37 PM

Well, if there's a "lead" player who cannot do this duty, he's not a very good player. All musician's should have good sense of rhythm. Question is: does he want to play rhythm guitar? People like the guy I was talking about find it "boring" to play rhythm unless they also sing. I think, if approached creatively and skillfully, it need not be boring.

I personally am taking the time right now to learn new chords and embellishments, such as suspended chords and to play various runs, so I can play rhythm better. That's because I play by myself now and there's no sense in playing "lead".

I'm taking the time to learn the fretboard better, to learn more theory, some classical pieces and maybe even standard notation (if I find the time).

So I don't "disagree" with what you said, I just "phrase" it differently.

taygull · #10 07-28-2004, 04:17 PM

Gear Junky,

Never said the lead player could not play rhythm.

I'm trying to get opinions from many who have played in a full band, 6 – 8 pieces. I know what is needed from a solo act when someone is singing. I understand learning the fretboard and embellishments. Thanks but that is not the information I'm looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by taygull

Define the roll of a true "Rhythm Guitar Player". What do you need him to be and what do you need him (or her) "not to be"? ...let's make some basic assumptions. You have a very good lead player, solid vocalist, good bass player, drummer, and every now and then you may have a fiddle player and or a lap/steel guitarist.

The reason I think it is important to stick to parts is due to the fact some "bar bands" cannot spend 5 nights a week practicing, everyone must know there specific role and come to the rehearsal/prepared. Of course most good lead players can play rhythm. That is not what I wanted to "debate".

taygull · #11 07-28-2004, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 815C

A good rythym player should:

1. Be able to keep time like a metromone if the drummer is not playing.

2. Not overplay - just fill in the right spots - listening to the overall sound of the band and not just his guitar. (Listen to some recordings of the Eagles and concentrate on how little the rythym guitar does on some songs.)

Thanks 815C, I am hoping for more feedback like this!

brownrd · #12 07-28-2004, 05:53 PM

me too. As an aspiring rhythm player, I'm very interested in the responses to this thread.....keep em coming folks!

Gear_Junky · #13 07-29-2004, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taygull

Gear Junky,

Never said the lead player could not play rhythm.

I'm trying to get opinions from many who have played in a full band, 6 – 8 pieces. I know what is needed from a solo act when someone is singing. I understand learning the fretboard and embellishments. Thanks but that is not the information I'm looking for.
... That is not what I wanted to "debate".

Ok, I'm sorry, Taygull, I did not mean to debate either! Can try again?

Although I did not play for money, I played in a band with drums/bass/acoustic/electric and cello players. I wasn't a "leader" of the band, but I usually had the most ideas. I also was in another band after that, which had a piano/keyboard player.

In the context of all that I think that the role of the rhythm player is to provide "rhythmic texture" or "rhythmic drawing/pattern" of the songs played. To me this is part of the "arrangement" of any song.

I don't consider this rhythmic texture to be "time keeping". I don't agree that drummers and other rhythm section players "keep time". I think that the whole band keeps time together in their heads and all play to the same beat/feel or tempo/rhythm.

The rhythm guitar provides a very colorful harmonic texture to songs, in some songs it may be "that sound" which people associate with the song (just like in other songs it's the guitar riff or the bass line or the drums). Other times that harmonic layer makes the solo instruments sound better (they "float" in it, all solos/leads need harmony).

That's my vision of rhythm guitar. It may be playing very simple chords, but the player could attack the strings differently to highlight emotion, etc. I also like switching between strumming and fingerpicking either way as means of changing the emotion (other instruments also follow by playing softer or even not playing in some parts)

I hope this can be counted as "the responses you were looking for"

Again, sorry for misunderstanding, I didn't really imply anything, just related my experience/opinion. Thanks!

shane · #14 07-29-2004, 03:26 PM

i dont remember who it was, but someone on these boards once said to be a rhythm guitarist is not to be noticed when youre there, but to be noticed when youre not. or something to that effect.

A1rh0pper · #15 07-29-2004, 06:52 PM

I had been waiting to respond only because I know where "taygull" is coming from with this post and question. But I thought I'd go ahead and chime in. Gear Junky and shane in my opinion have both hit it on the head.

When I played in a rock cover band for 18 months my label was rhythm guy, but I was always introduced as the "color guy". I played the tonal center of almost every song we did with embelishments from time to time. Our lead singer was also our quote "lead guitarist" but the biggest reason he didn't play "rhythm" was because he tended to skew either the rhythm or his vocals unintentionally blending the two.

I had a few people comment after I left the band that things got kinda stale...let me tell you that's a huge compliment that I appreciated very much. I never played anything exceptionally difficult, just tried to keep things kinda simple, but paid very close attention to my tone, strumming, and made sure that I didn't stand out.

So anyway, there are my comments....great stuff so far everyone...it's been very interesting reading.