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  #46  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:35 AM
drive-south drive-south is offline
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Seam separation is not the same thing as a crack, so I would not hesitate to buy a guitar with a seam separation that has been properly repaired and cleated. In fact I have 2 Guild guitars with seam repairs. It seems they had an issue with top seams in the early 90's as I've seen many like this.

Let's rephrase the question in the OP. If you had a guitar that you loved and it cracked would you repair it and keep it or use for firewood?
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  #47  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:45 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drive-south View Post
Seam separation is not the same thing as a crack...
What is the practical difference?

What was one continuous "membrane" is now two after a crack, a "seam separation" or a "split".

You say tomato, I say tomato... the result is the same, the fix is the same, the finished result is the same.
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  #48  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:41 AM
prusaw prusaw is offline
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Buy it! Best way to get an amazing instrument that is out of your price range. I've had many guitars with cracks and never had a problem
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  #49  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:56 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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In the classical music world, professional repairs are a complete non-issue. For example, if an orchestra violinist moves from from, say, swampy Miami to arid Los Angeles, there's a good chance that his or her priceless 300-year-old fiddle will basically self-destruct and have to be put back together again. It's no big deal.
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  #50  
Old 02-17-2020, 10:32 AM
guitar george guitar george is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
What is the practical difference?

What was one continuous "membrane" is now two after a crack, a "seam separation" or a "split".

You say tomato, I say tomato... the result is the same, the fix is the same, the finished result is the same.
There may be little to no real practical difference but a seam separation indicates poor construction. A properly glued seam is stronger than the wood, so, the wood would split before the seam would separate. A split in the wood means the wood has broken.
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  #51  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:07 AM
seannx seannx is offline
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Good luck finding an affordable, wonderful sounding and playing vintage guitar without one.
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  #52  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:23 AM
Kitkatjoe Kitkatjoe is offline
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Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
If you ran across a guitar you liked and it had a crack in the back or top, which had been professionally repaired and the price reflected market value with the damage, would you consider it?


The idea of a major crack repair job would be a walk away for me on an expensive guitar. I would always wonder what did the guitar sound like before the repair job? The vibration of the top was compromised. Why did the guitar top crack? Will this happen again after I buy it? There was a very respected guitar shop that had several new guitars that developed cracks. I don't want a potential money pit guitar.😩😷😰😟😫😭🙅🙋
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  #53  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:26 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar george View Post
There may be little to no real practical difference but a seam separation indicates poor construction. A properly glued seam is stronger than the wood, so, the wood would split before the seam would separate. A split in the wood means the wood has broken.
That's nice sounding in theory, but isn't reflective of The Real World.

The number of guitars that have separations of the centre seam suggests that a large number of them, of all price ranges and many makers, large and small, are poorly constructed. We see far more guitars that crack/separate at the top's centre seam than we see tops that crack elsewhere in the lower bout. There are some that crack in the lower bout, rather than the seam, but there are an awful lot of them that crack at the centre seam but don't crack elsewhere.

I'm not aware of any manufacturer - large or small - who will repair a split top under warranty, regardless of where it is split. They don't acknowledge it as "poor construction" or a manufacturing defect. Possibly, they are all wrong.
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  #54  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:28 AM
tadol tadol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar george View Post
There may be little to no real practical difference but a seam separation indicates poor construction. A properly glued seam is stronger than the wood, so, the wood would split before the seam would separate. A split in the wood means the wood has broken.
A top is very thin, so there is very little area for the glue. If kept in ideal conditions, yes, the glue joint is stronger, but exposed to heat, or moisture, it isn’t that hard for that glue joint to soften or even fail. Especially if a top is built without a radius, which used to be very common. I would not immediately jump to poor construction whenever you see a seam separation. A lot of professional musicians had problems with guitars stored in tour buses, or under hot lights on stage. The finest guitars aren’t built by luthiers assuming they’ll be subjected to the kind of conditions we put them through - luckily, if built well to begin with, they are extremely repairable, and frequently, a well repaired guitar can actually be better then new -
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  #55  
Old 02-17-2020, 11:33 AM
SuperB23 SuperB23 is online now
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As a rule of thumb I've avoided instruments with repaired cracks unless its a vintage Martin or Gibson.
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  #56  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:24 PM
guitar george guitar george is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
... We see far more guitars that crack/separate at the top's centre seam than we see tops that crack elsewhere in the lower bout. There are some that crack in the lower bout, rather than the seam, but there are an awful lot of them that crack at the centre seam but don't crack elsewhere.
When a guitar seam cracks is it because:
The glue has separated within itself and glue is still stuck to the wood on both sides of the crack?
The glue has pulled away from one side of the wood and is still stuck to the other side of the crack?
The wood has split next to the glue and is still attached to the glue and the glue is still attached to the wood on both sides of the crack? i.e. the centre seam didn't actually crack.

I would suggest that because the glue is stronger than the wood, expansion and contraction of two dissimilar materials along the centre seam, due to changes in humidity levels, is what causes most of the cracks in centre seams.
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  #57  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:41 PM
jfgesquire jfgesquire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar george View Post

The wood has split next to the glue and is still attached to the glue
THIS is likely what's happening. To think that the glue remained adhered to one side of the seam but let go of the other side is unlikely. More likely is that the seam was "right next to" a grain line and a sliver of wood stayed glued when the wood let go.
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  #58  
Old 02-17-2020, 04:51 PM
jspe jspe is offline
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I've always stayed away from guitars with cracks, bad bump damage, or seam separation. To me its a sign of neglect and/or abuse. Tiny cracks near edges, or finish checking are ok, but I live in a climate (Canadian prairies) where winter furnace havoc on guitars is imminent without humidification maintenance.
Also as you know, all too often, a dehydrated, cracked guitar will have tonal issues as well, with some kind of buzzing or fret board distortion or other warping, bracing concerns, or top sinking and shrinkage.
Often the guitar can be returned to good form with a couple weeks of re-hydration, but the risk of ongoing issues can be a crap shoot.
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  #59  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:01 PM
gfspencer gfspencer is offline
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I have a 1952 Martin D-28. It has some repaired cracks and it has been refinished. I paid at least ½ the price of a pristine guitar the same age. It sounds great! Money well spent.
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