listening to the Byrds

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

The live recording half of Untitled is pretty good, as I remember.

I was going from memory of the live disk of that record when I commented above on the later Byrds lineup trying to establish themselves as a live band who could deliver what audiences wanted in 1970.

The album was the recording with the Byrds debut of Skip Battin as the new bass player, and he came with a reputation as more skilled bass player. And of course the lead/6 string guitarist is Clarence White in this edition of the Byrds.

Re-listening to the live section of that record in the 21st century remaster found on Spotify today I think the bass is mixed too high, and Battin has chops but is of the busy bass player school. White of course was famous for his facility, and also plays a lot of notes (with a wacky fuzz-tone timbre for the most part). Parsons may be as good a drummer as they ever had save for the Wrecking Crew studio cuts, and McGuinn is solid but there isn't much space to feature his 12-string what with the White and Battin,

I mostly remembered the LP side-long version of "Eight Miles High"--which happens to be one of my favorite songs of all time, just not here. It's the only cut that's fully "jammy" and it has it's moments, though I much prefer the earlier studio single and the famous alternate take done just before the one that was issued.

Overall, the effect is stranger than I remembered. I myself can sometimes be a too busy bass player, and I'll use a fuzz box on guitar--but the busy playing and rapid tempos may not be the best way to serve the new songs on the live disk or some of the old songs played live. White has talent and momentum to burn on lead--he impresses me with that from the get go--but subjectively he never quite comes up with something that takes my breath away or gives me "chicken skin" in the Ry Cooder phrase. That could be me or my own expectations--but I'll repeat, even just a couple of minutes in and I can't help but tip my hat to White's skills on that record.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Do you have a link? I've played with Roger and he's frankly great. In fact, when the Byrds recorded their first album he was the only one allowed to play on the album. The rest of it was the wrecking crew. There were, of course, members of the various incarnations of the band who overindulged in drugs and alcohol, so....

David, as you know, but many don't, Roger was a seasoned musician by the time he joined The Byrds having been the major musician, starting at age 18, behind The Chad Mitchell Trio during their first few years.

[Inyo]

Originally Posted by DavidE

Roger. When the Byrds recorded their first album he was the only one allowed to play on the album. The rest of it was the wrecking crew.

Absolutely untrue.

Along with Roger (the artist formerly known as Jim) McGuinn, The Wrecking Crew did provide the backing for the tracks Mr. Tambourine Man and the Gene Clark composition I Knew I'd Want You; but The Byrds contributed all the instrumental backing for the remainder of songs on their first album without the help of The Wrecking Crew or other hired studio musicians.

[6L6]

Roger spent a good deal of time as a session musician before hitting it big with the Byrds.

[jseth]

Although I loved the Byrds' songs when I was a kid and they first came out, I don't know that I EVER really listened to a whole album of theirs, even though I owned one! This was back in the day when I realized that, if I was going to spend money on an album, there had BETTER BE more than one or two good songs on it! I must have listened to the whole of the first two records, though... and I owned "5th Dimension", mostly because of "8 Miles High"... if I ever listened to that entire record, it was only once or twice...

I've listened to "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" countless times, though, and 'Untitled" more than a few times... I prefer the studio side of that record, especially "Chestnut Mare" - which still makes me smile just writing about it! There are moments on the live side that I really like - Clarence's playing on "Lover of the Bayou" is excellent, for example... heck, ALL of Clarence White's playing is more than worth hearing!

Seems the Byrds had a lot of trouble putting out a complete record, though; one where every song stood on it's own and was a really good song... excepting "Sweetheart of the Rodeo", which is the strongest record they ever did (even with Gram's vocals replaced on several tunes due to contractual issues)... in my opinion, of course.

They certainly had a LOT of great tunes, though... I'm particularly partial to Gene Clark's songs...

[Don Lampson]

Originally Posted by mercy

I was listening to a Byrds concert in Rome. I like the Byrds and have been trying to follow the mysterious career of Gram Parsons, incidentally if anyone can direct me to info I would like that. They played their songs but they were extremely rough, kinda like a garage band. There are bands at the thursday farmers market that are a lot better. Not to be negative but I was shocked. Its wonderful what a studio can do with a group. Of course the core concept was there with the 12 string but it was the studio that made it work.

I was an avid Byrds fan, right from the first time I heard them... When I got out the Army in 1967, I finally saw them play live at a "Love In", at Griffith Park, in LA. I was absolutely shocked at how lousy they sounded live!

I never saw them play live again, but still thought their albums were 1st class, and was amazed at how much they sounded the same, considering all the line ups they had!

Don

[catdaddy]

Originally Posted by jseth

Although I loved the Byrds' songs when I was a kid and they first came out, I don't know that I EVER really listened to a whole album of theirs, even though I owned one! This was back in the day when I realized that, if I was going to spend money on an album, there had BETTER BE more than one or two good songs on it! I must have listened to the whole of the first two records, though... and I owned "5th Dimension", mostly because of "8 Miles High"... if I ever listened to that entire record, it was only once or twice...

I've listened to "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" countless times, though, and 'Untitled" more than a few times... I prefer the studio side of that record, especially "Chestnut Mare" - which still makes me smile just writing about it! There are moments on the live side that I really like - Clarence's playing on "Lover of the Bayou" is excellent, for example... heck, ALL of Clarence White's playing is more than worth hearing!

Seems the Byrds had a lot of trouble putting out a complete record, though; one where every song stood on it's own and was a really good song... excepting "Sweetheart of the Rodeo", which is the strongest record they ever did (even with Gram's vocals replaced on several tunes due to contractual issues)... in my opinion, of course.

They certainly had a LOT of great tunes, though... I'm particularly partial to Gene Clark's songs...

We all have our personal listening preferences. Personally, I rarely have heard albums from the 60's where every song stood on its own. It was an era of experimentation and testing musical boundaries, and in retrospect many of those experiments were over-the-top, self-indulgent, or both. The Byrds were one of many artists guilty of this when making albums. For me, their Younger Than Yesterday and The Notorious Byrd Brothers albums are great albums. Yes, there is one song on each of them that I would have culled before release for my tastes, but given the era I find them to be two of the best and most consistently creative efforts from anyone at the time.

[Inyo]

Originally Posted by 6L6

Roger spent a good deal of time as a session musician before hitting it big with the Byrds.

Not really.

In actual fact, prior to The Byrds, he was more of a touring sideman rather than a studio musician. McGuinn's biography notes that he spent some brief time as a session man in New York City in 1963, supposedly playing for Hoyt Axton and Tom and Jerry (who later became Simon & Garfunkel); he did arrange and play banjo and second guitar on the Judy Collins #3 album, recorded March and April, 1963, in New York City.

As backup musician for a group, or act--not as a studio musician--he did play banjo on two early Chad Mitchell Trio albums, and he and Bobby Darin recorded a surf song together, and he was an uncredited accompanist on an album by The Limeliters: Tonight:In Person (recorded live), and he played banjo on the Hoyt Axton live album The Balladeer (originally recorded in 1962, but repackaged in 1963 as a different lp, called Greenback Dollar).

A more accurate assessment here is that when The Byrds assembled as a group, McGuinn had much more professional musical experience than the other founding members. That's indubitably why producer Terry Melcher allowed ONLY McGuinn to play on the first two songs recorded for The Mr. Tambourine album--Mr. Tambourine Man and I Knew I'd Want You. After that, of course, The Byrds completed the album sans "hired guns," session/studio musicians.

Addendum--I play four selections from that first Byrds album as solo acoustic instrumentals: Mr. Tambourine Man; I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better; The Bells Of Rhymney; and All I Really Want To Do.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by catdaddy

We all have our personal listening preferences. Personally, I rarely have heard albums from the 60's where every song stood on its own. It was an era of experimentation and testing musical boundaries, and in retrospect many of those experiments were over-the-top, self-indulgent, or both. The Byrds were one of many artists guilty of this when making albums. For me, their Younger Than Yesterday and The Notorious Byrd Brothers albums are great albums. Yes, there is one song on each of them that I would have culled before release for my tastes, but given the era I find them to be two of the best and most consistently creative efforts from anyone at the time.

I'm with you. Every Byrds album has stuff I like, but those two records: Younger than Yesterday and The Notorious Byrd Bothers are touchstones for me. Even the arguably self-indulgent experiments charm me. "Everybody's Been Burned," for example, is to my mind a great song and performance.

[TeleBluesMan]

I'm one of the 25 people who like Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde.

[catdaddy]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

I'm with you. Every Byrds album has stuff I like, but those two records: Younger than Yesterday and The Notorious Byrd Bothers are touchstones for me. Even the arguably self-indulgent experiments charm me. "Everybody's Been Burned," for example, is to my mind a great song and performance.

What a great song that is! "Everybody's Been Burned" was my favorite song from Younger Than Yesterday from the first listen. IMO, it still stands as one of Crosby's best songs/performances regardless of era or band context. His "Mind Gardens" from the same album, on the other hand is, well... 'nuff said.

[mercy]

on my walk today I listened to the Mr Tamborine Man album. I liked all but one of the tunes and it was ok. Though Ive always liked the title song I think my favorite is Chimes of Freedom. Turn I like a lot. Most of the songs that werent Dylan seemed very average, Beatles influenced, I wonder if it was deliberate as none were covers.
Except for one song the album was very well engineered. I could hear all the instruments at appropriate volumes. That enabled me to be disappointed with the bass playing, I could hear it. Almost none of it contributed to the groups sound, all of it sounding very safe. A high school music store bass student could have done as well.
This will be an album I will listen to again, I liked it that much. I dont intend to buy any more Byrds though as I didnt like the direction the group headed. It seemed like the group went downhill from this album. Perhaps they had to change to keep peoples interest but they lost mine in the process.

[bsman]

I always thought that the best career move Parsons ever did was dying young. He was immediately romanticized and elevated to a status I think was largely undeserved by the bulk of his work.

*puts on Nomex suit*

[mercy]

I was thinking the same thing the other day. Kinda the same as painters, if they live long they dont do much but die and all of a sudden they are great. We really dont know what Gram would have done if he hadnt died but based on the body of his work Id say he wouldnt have been as famous.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by mercy

on my walk today I listened to the Mr Tamborine Man album. I liked all but one of the tunes and it was ok. Though Ive always liked the title song I think my favorite is Chimes of Freedom. Turn I like a lot. Most of the songs that werent Dylan seemed very average, Beatles influenced, I wonder if it was deliberate as none were covers.
Except for one song the album was very well engineered. I could hear all the instruments at appropriate volumes. That enabled me to be disappointed with the bass playing, I could hear it. Almost none of it contributed to the groups sound, all of it sounding very safe. A high school music store bass student could have done as well.
This will be an album I will listen to again, I liked it that much. I dont intend to buy any more Byrds though as I didnt like the direction the group headed. It seemed like the group went downhill from this album. Perhaps they had to change to keep peoples interest but they lost mine in the process.

Yes, those early Byrds originals were explicitly based on liking the Beatles and wanting to do something similar. McGuinn himself often talks about the Beatles as one of their aims/inspirations. I find some of those early (most often by Gene Clark) songs charming and see nothing wrong with them being fairly early on the Beatles influenced trend.

By the way, younger people may not know and older people may have forgotten, but despite the Beatles popularity, seeing them as something worth emulating within the entire musical community was not a given back then. Some in the jazz and folk community saw The Beatles in 1964 as about as valid as 21st century Justin Bieber today. I was one of those. I was wrong.

My favorite Byrds period are their middle albums: Fifth Dimension through Notorious Byrd Brothers. Not that you need to like those records. Things I like: Chris Hillman developed rapidly into an interesting bass player and McGuinn's electric 12-string sound that flowered then has never been equaled to my knowledge/opinion. As mentioned up-thread, the Byrds in-group songwriting was becoming eclectic/experimental on these LPs, something I also value.