What are your thoughts about tipping?

[Brucebubs]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

It’s a reality only in the USA. Go to Japan, where tipping is considered rude, and you’ll still get top notch service, and reasonable prices. Getting away with paying employees 25% of the federal minimum wage just because they’re hired as “tipped employees” is absolutely criminal in my book. People are waking up, there’s some employers (USA) that have brought it upon themselves to pay their staff a livable wage and banned tipping in their restaurants. That’s how it should be.

You may be surprised to know that tipping has never been a part of the 'Australian culture' too. Like Japan, hourly rates are much higher. Tipping here is entirely optional. If you feel the service was great then go ahead and leave a tip. If not, then just pay the bill. That's how we do it.

p.s. no, 'Australian culture' is not an oxymoron.

[buddyhu]

Tipping is a strange phenomenon. And yet, it is embedded in many cultures.

No one ever got rich by being a waiter or waitress.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

I addressed that in my previous posts. But in short, yes, it should be the restaurant’s owner responsibility to compensate their service staff adequately, not the customer.

What's great here in the US is that we can choose whether we want to work for tips, or whether we want a salary. We can also choose where we want to wat. If you want to wat at a place where tipping is not allowed, you're free to do so. If I want to patronize a place that allows tipping, I can do so as well! Everyone is happy.

Originally Posted by jdto

It’s funny that tipping is an old world aristocratic practice that survived and thrived in the republic where all people were supposedly equal.

Satisfied, well-paid employees give good service. I suppose having someone be nice to you and fawn over you because they depend on you for their living is one way to ensure good service.

Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan played on the same Chicago Bulls team. Michael Jordan got paid a LOT more than Scottie Pippen. Michael Jordan also scored more, had more fans, and drew in the crowds. If I used your "equal" reasoning, they should have gotten paid the same. Apparently, they are not equal. Maybe equal in the eyes of the law, but their skills were not equal. Their crowd draw was not equal.

Why should LeBron James get paid more than me? Or, better yet, why can't I play for the LA Lakers? Why am I not equal to him? Hmmmm, maybe he-s about a foot-and-a-half taller than me, played basketball to a high level most all his life, and has millions of fans. So are we equal? Maybe in the eyes of the law, but even there, I'd bet that LeBron could probably get away with stuff that I'd probably be arrested for.

Having owned a few small businesses myself, it's just a fact of life that someone will have a higher skill set, and will deserve (and expect) higher compensation for that. Customer service is a skill, as is courtesy and punctuality. Heck, we pay more for a better guitar. Why would we treat our fellow humans worse than an inanimate object? Guitars aren't equal?

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Tipping is a strange phenomenon. And yet, it is embedded in many cultures.

No one ever got rich by being a waiter or waitress.

Some people don't aspire to be rich. Some cannot, for one reason or another. If they did, maybe they wouldn't be waiting tables. Many do it as a second job.

[1neeto]

Here’s that study I mentioned earlier. In general, tips are rarely based on the quality of the service.

https://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/...ntext=articles

[1neeto]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

What's great here in the US is that we can choose whether we want to work for tips, or whether we want a salary. We can also choose where we want to wat. If you want to wat at a place where tipping is not allowed, you're free to do so. If I want to patronize a place that allows tipping, I can do so as well! Everyone is happy.







Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan played on the same Chicago Bulls team. Michael Jordan got paid a LOT more than Scottie Pippen. Michael Jordan also scored more, had more fans, and drew in the crowds. If I used your "equal" reasoning, they should have gotten paid the same. Apparently, they are not equal. Maybe equal in the eyes of the law, but their skills were not equal. Their crowd draw was not equal.



Why should LeBron James get paid more than me? Or, better yet, why can't I play for the LA Lakers? Why am I not equal to him? Hmmmm, maybe he-s about a foot-and-a-half taller than me, played basketball to a high level most all his life, and has millions of fans. So are we equal? Maybe in the eyes of the law, but even there, I'd bet that LeBron could probably get away with stuff that I'd probably be arrested for.



Having owned a few small businesses myself, it's just a fact of life that someone will have a higher skill set, and will deserve (and expect) higher compensation for that. Customer service is a skill, as is courtesy and punctuality. Heck, we pay more for a better guitar. Why would we treat our fellow humans worse than an inanimate object? Guitars aren't equal?

Absolutely. At the end of the day, the employee made the decision to work for $2 an hour plus tips. Although legally, tipping is an option, the social stigma of bad/non-tippers is enough to make a it pretty much mandatory.

There’s numerous YouTube videos that argue the tipping culture and bring a ton of very valid points against it, but they have way too colorful commentary that’s not welcomed here so can’t post the links. Go check them out!

[Mbroady]

Been in the hospitality business all my life, mostly back of the house, but have managed front of house operations.

Tipping is something that I do, always. Even if the service is lacking. In my experience bad service is a reflection of bad management. A server with a bad attitude or lack of skills showes a lack of training or proper oversight. Or if service is slow then the logistics and ergonomics of an operation should be evaluated.

And, sometimes customers are rude, arrogant and just down right nasty people. Servers need to be trained on how to adapt to this. So cut your server some slack.

[FLRon]

I guess I would be considered a good tipper as I try to go above and beyond for those who provide good to great service. I can only remember one time that I “stiffed” a server and that was because he went out of his way to be rude, obnoxious, and completely aloof as to our needs as customers. I actually wrote on the receipt “you need to seriously consider a new line of work because you suck as a server”.

[Mr. Jelly]

I usually over tip.

Am I paying for good service to bad tippers? Are they getting good service because the service people can make a living wage from people like me? I think I'm being taken advantage of

[jdto]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

What's great here in the US is that we can choose whether we want to work for tips, or whether we want a salary. We can also choose where we want to wat. If you want to wat at a place where tipping is not allowed, you're free to do so. If I want to patronize a place that allows tipping, I can do so as well! Everyone is happy.



Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan played on the same Chicago Bulls team. Michael Jordan got paid a LOT more than Scottie Pippen. Michael Jordan also scored more, had more fans, and drew in the crowds. If I used your "equal" reasoning, they should have gotten paid the same. Apparently, they are not equal. Maybe equal in the eyes of the law, but their skills were not equal. Their crowd draw was not equal.

Why should LeBron James get paid more than me? Or, better yet, why can't I play for the LA Lakers? Why am I not equal to him? Hmmmm, maybe he-s about a foot-and-a-half taller than me, played basketball to a high level most all his life, and has millions of fans. So are we equal? Maybe in the eyes of the law, but even there, I'd bet that LeBron could probably get away with stuff that I'd probably be arrested for.

Having owned a few small businesses myself, it's just a fact of life that someone will have a higher skill set, and will deserve (and expect) higher compensation for that. Customer service is a skill, as is courtesy and punctuality. Heck, we pay more for a better guitar. Why would we treat our fellow humans worse than an inanimate object? Guitars aren't equal?

Yup...pro basketball and guitars are the same as waiting tables.

[ahorsewithnonam]

I way over tip on someone who it sincerely trying. I feel guilty if I don’t.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by jdto

Yup...pro basketball and guitars are the same as waiting tables.

My point, obviously, is that even in waiting tables, there are those that are better than others. And if they're faster, and more courteous and attentive, they'll make more than those who are not. As with most everything in life.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

Absolutely. At the end of the day, the employee made the decision to work for $2 an hour plus tips. Although legally, tipping is an option, the social stigma of bad/non-tippers is enough to make a it pretty much mandatory.

There’s numerous YouTube videos that argue the tipping culture and bring a ton of very valid points against it, but they have way too colorful commentary that’s not welcomed here so can’t post the links. Go check them out!

That is correct. The employee is under no contractual obligation to stay at their place of employment if they feel they should be getting a salary or an hourly wage. Although here in the metro NY area, I would bet that most in the service industry that work on tips would rather stay working on tips than to have "minimum wage."

I worked briefly as a laborer for a local contractor. I mentioned something to the effect that I'd like to possibly do more carpentry work - which is my trade. He told me something to the effect that I was not under ball and chain. Message received. And as soon as I found something better I took him up on the offer to leave.

Personally, managing a bar at the local bowling alley as well as bartending Monday nights, I get a stipend for the night, plus tips. I can't say I go out of my way to be friendly with customers, most of which I see on a weekly basis as they bowl in leagues. I just happen to be generally easy-going and friendly with most all people, and I've been blessed with their generosity. I never ask for a tip (nor are we allowed to do such) - that's just uncouth. Some folks see a bartender as their second "shrink" - someone they can offload their troubles to. But you don't have to be a best friend to everyone that walks in - just be respectful and courteous. You get good enough that you know everybody's first name, what they do for a living, what drink they usually have. Not everyone tips, but I treat them just the same.

[Basalt Beach]

Originally Posted by LouieAtienza

My point, obviously, is that even in waiting tables, there are those that are better than others. And if they're faster, and more courteous and attentive, they'll make more than those who are not. As with most everything in life.

You might believe you are rewarding a single individual however, having worked through college in dining establishments, as did many friends and family, there are quite a few eating establishments which pool the tips earned and split them with the wait staff and those who bus the tables, thus all servers split the their portion and each earned the same amount.

[Davis Webb]

Originally Posted by 1neeto

Not trying to be presumptuous, my rant is about the tipping system, not the service employee. It shouldn’t be my responsibility as a customer to make sure that employee has a livable wage.

He is raising a good point. Its not about tipping for him. As I understand, the key is that restaraunt owners under pay staff and expect us to pick up the slack. The issue is not tipping for me, its how cheap many operators are. They charge $12 for a cocktail at our local bar, that has to pay the owner well. Face it, many restaraunt owners are cheap and miserly and underpay everyone.