Is a slope shoulder a Dread or Jumbo

[Brucebubs]

... and then Martin added 3/4' body depth to their existing 0000/M guitar and called it a jumbo.(bad name-big mistake in my opinion)
Fast forward to 2009 and they build a true (to me) jumbo with a 17" lower bout .. so what are they going to call it because they already used the term 'jumbo' on their other body? ... so they just added the word 'Grand' to the title.

See below; Grand Jumbo on the left ... and Jumbo on the right.... ain't that big is it?

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

I disagree. When someone is discussing a guitar, they should be able to use the correct term, jumbo or dreadnought. If you own a jumbo, you should call it a jumbo and not a dreadnought. Just like if you own a corvette, you call it a sports car and not a sedan. Words are important.

When I was a kid-and this is probably just an English thing-'big' guitars we called jumbos and everything else was a 'folk' guitar, whatever it was if it had steel strings. I was 16 when I bought an Eko 'Rio Bravo' dread, but I had no idea what a dreadnaught was, so a jumbo it was.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

I disagree. When someone is discussing a guitar, they should be able to use the correct term, jumbo or dreadnought. If you own a jumbo, you should call it a jumbo and not a dreadnought. Just like if you own a corvette, you call it a sports car and not a sedan. Words are important.

I understand your point but...
No one has ever asked me whether my J45 is a Slope-shoulder Dread, a Jumbo or a violin.
In fact, hardly anyone ever asks me what I'm playing and if they do and I say "hey, it's a J45", many just stare at me blankly.
I just call my guitars by their brand and model numbers. Most guitar players already know what I'm playing.
To me, the rest is minutiae.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I understand your point but...
No one has ever asked me whether my J45 is a Slope-shoulder Dread, a Jumbo or a violin.
In fact, hardly anyone ever asks me what I'm playing and if they do and I say "hey, it's a J45", many just stare at me blankly.
I just call my guitars by their brand and model numbers. Most guitar players already know what I'm playing.
To me, the rest is minutiae.

To some people, a viola and a violin are the same thing. To some people a small classical guitar and a 12-fret steel string dreadnought are no different. To me—a guitarist—I care to know what different guitars are called. John Arnold already posted the definitive answer. I can only add to that by saying that, it’s not up to non-guitarists to determine how we call our instruments. Facts and words matter. John wrote (above),

“Gibsons are Jumbos, Martins are dreadnoughts. There is no such animal as a 'Gibson Advanced Dreadnought'.
While the shapes are roughly similar, the dimensions are quite different. The Gibson jumbo is wider in the lower bout, but has a shorter body length.
Gibson jumbos are mostly 14 fret (exception is the Hawaiian Roy Smeck), while the Martin slope is traditionally a 12 fret guitar only.”

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

To some people, a viola and a violin are the same thing. ...

Then those people are daft. A viola is larger than a violin just like a 000 is larger than a 00. A slope-shoulder guitar is what the builder says it is. If Martin calls their slope-shoulder a dread - it's a dread. If Gibson calls their J guitars jumbos - they are jumbos.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

To some people, a viola and a violin are the same thing. To some people a small classical guitar and a 12-fret steel string dreadnought are no different. To me—a guitarist—I care to know what different guitars are called. John Arnold already posted the definitive answer. I can only add to that by saying that, it’s not up to non-guitarists to determine how we call our instruments. Facts and words matter. John wrote (above),

“Gibsons are Jumbos, Martins are dreadnoughts. There is no such animal as a 'Gibson Advanced Dreadnought'.
While the shapes are roughly similar, the dimensions are quite different. The Gibson jumbo is wider in the lower bout, but has a shorter body length.
Gibson jumbos are mostly 14 fret (exception is the Hawaiian Roy Smeck), while the Martin slope is traditionally a 12 fret guitar only.”

And I acknowledge that you care and that it matters to you.
I'm just not into it that much and I honestly don't worry about whether non-guitarists determine anything or don't determine anything. I just play 'em.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

And I acknowledge that you care and that it matters to you.
I'm just not into it that much and I honestly don't worry about whether non-guitarists determine anything or don't determine anything. I just play 'em.

If you play a guitar, you should know what guitar you play. I think that’s fair to ask. But you’re right, lots of people play jumbos and call them dreadnoughts and life goes on. It’s become quite fashionable to just make stuff up and call it reality these days. If people don’t care enough to know their instrument, that’s the way it is.

[12barBill]

And Seinfeld was a "show about nothing"...

[Tnfiddler]

Why is this an argument to begin with! The whole viola/violin thing we can argue because they’re not even the same noted strings, but our acoustics are still acoustics no matter what body shape they have. We’re a petty bunch, that’s for sure! If we went outside and someone said it was raining, someone else would pipe in to corrrect them that it’s precipitating!

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

Why is this an argument to begin with! The whole viola/violin thing we can argue because they’re not even the same noted strings, but our acoustics are still acoustics no matter what body shape they have. We’re a petty bunch, that’s for sure! If we went outside and someone said it was raining, someone else would pipe in to corrrect them that it’s precipitating!

When the knee jerk reaction is to push back, sometimes, especially when a master luthier pipes up, it’s worth thinking to oneself, “is there something here I’m not seeing?”

[Nyghthawk]

My AJ-500 is an advanced jumbo. Whatever that means. Sounds kind of like a dread to me.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

For all intents and purposes, the J-45 and its many variant models are dreadnoughts...

I agree. And that includes Gibson's AJ - "advanced jumbo" -- it's a dread!

Gibson's SJ - super jumbo - is a jumbo, as is Guild's F-50. They have 17" lower bouts. Gibson's CJ - compact jumbo - is not a jumbo, it's a compact jumbo!

There, got that straightened out.

[donlyn]

The word 'jumbo' means something that is large, maybe larger than normal.

A dreadnought is a class of battleship, one whose main battery consists of the same large calibre gun. (The 8th warship named HMS Dreadnought, launched in 1906, was the first warship with this revolutionary design, and all line-of-battle-ships made since are also referred to as 'dreadnoughts'.)

The common theme here is that both words mean 'large'. Neither one refers to a shape. A small jumbo is an oxymoron.

We can all blame the various marketing departments for the lack of a common definition to describe these guitars.

Don
.

[donlyn]

And a slope is a descriptive property of something that is slanted, that is, an incline or a gradient. The term 'slope-shouldered' really doesn't correctly describe anything about a guitar. The 'round-shoulder' term is far more exact.

Once again, blame the marketing departments.

Don
.

[semolinapilcher]

To me, an Advanced Jumbo is a slope dread, and a Super Jumbo is a jumbo.