What is Bhilwara Rosewood?

[zmf]

I'm about to hit a few guitar shops and check out Gibson slope-shoulders. One shop had advanced jumbos with bhilwara rosewood B/S. I haven't heard of this rosewood before, and use some enlightenment.

Thanks.

[Ciarre]

All I could find is that Bhilwara is a place in northern India. Gibson's website mentioned Bhilwara rosewood but little detail. I'd guess it's similar to BRW but not so endangered?

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Ciarre

All I could find is that Bhilwara is a place in northern India. Gibson's website mentioned Bhilwara rosewood but little detail. I'd guess it's similar to BRW but not so endangered?

Yeah, I could only find it in relation to Gibson. The Gibson forum mentioned that Gibson went to India, found a stash of this maybe destined for railroad ties (??), and thought it would make good tonewood.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by zmf

Yeah, I could only find it in relation to Gibson. The Gibson forum mentioned that Gibson went to India, found a stash of this maybe destined for railroad ties (??), and thought it would make good tonewood.

My guess is that it's just the same as regular Indian rosewood, but Gibson is being hyper-specific as to where they found it in order to give it the allure of being something special.

Nothing wrong with that: it's called "marketing." But I conducted the same search a few months ago when I came across a reference to "Bhilwhara rosewood" in some of Gibson's promo materials: there's nothing to indicate that it's any sort of separate species or sub-species.

If my impression is correct, it would be like buying a stash of black walnut for the Gibson J-15 from a sawmill in Gasconade County, Missouri and calling it "Gasconade walnut." That would be accurate in that the wood itself was milled in Gasconade County, but that doesn't mean that it's different from any other black walnut from the region.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[cke]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

My guess is that it's just the same as regular Indian rosewood, but Gibson is being hyper-specific as to where they found it in order to give it the allure of being something special.

Nothing wrong with that: it's called "marketing." But I conducted the same search a few months ago when I came across a reference to "Bhilwhara rosewood" in some of Gibson's promo materials: there's nothing to indicate that it's any sort of separate species or sub-species.

If my impression is correct, it would be like buying a stash of black walnut for the Gibson J-15 from a sawmill in Gasconade County, Missouri and calling it "Gasconade walnut." That would be accurate in that the wood itself was milled in Gasconade County, but that doesn't mean that it's different from any other black walnut from the region.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

As you always do, makes sense to me!

Perhaps it is one way Gibson is trying to come back from th fiasco they had about illegal wood last year

[mc1]

love me some gasconade walnut. so sweet.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by mc1

love me some gasconade walnut. so sweet.

Tell you what: Hermann, Missouri, a quaint little German-American town in Gasconade County, has a series of festival weekends celebrating the wine harvest:

http://experiencehermann.com/

Amtrak runs special trains from St. Louis and Kansas City, and merrymakers from both cities descend upon the town to get blotto drunk and to colorfully (and merrily) vomit in the streets.

I know that as a Nova Scotian you probably have little direct experience with alcohol, but you can visit Hermann and try some for the first time. While there, you can also scout out sources for Gasconade walnut.

Hope this helps!


Wade Hampton "Missouri-Born Expat" Miller

[Jim.S]

Have you seen the instruments that are Bhilwarra rosewood? do you have any pics? It could be a reference to Indian rosewood rather than East Indian rosewood. EIR (dalbergia lattifolia) gets that more purplish colour and IR (Dalbergia sissoo) tends more to brown/tan so it could be a reference to Sissoo rather than EIR.

Jim

Edit. Try a Google of dalbergia sissoo and see if you come up with any references to the Bhilwarra region.

[bohemian]

Purple and purple grey EIR are sometimes indicators of plantation grown trees.

The Bhilwara Rosewood sounds like a regional name and not a separate and distinct timbre.

There is also East Indian laurel which is a rosewood. I have 4 sets of it about 15 years old. Harder than EIR and some striping and coloration like Brazilian. I may use it one of these days.
Could this be the B wood or Gibson phantom rosewood?

I just looked at Gibson's web site.. looks like East Indian Laurel to me.

Here is an image of East Indian Laurel not from Gibson's site.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...lectedIndex=29

[Jim.S]

Originally Posted by bohemian

There is also East Indian laurel which is also a rosewood.

Hmm, that is new to me, I have always known East Indian laurel to be Terminalia Sp. and not Dalbergia Sp. but the world of common names for wood is nothing short of confusing.


Jim

[bohemian]

Jim agreed... confusing.

Often East Indian laurel is represented as a rosewood, then sometimes not.

As a former exotic wood broker, I've heard a lot of stories and descriptions ..much of it conflicting.

I NEVER call east Indian Laurel a rosewood to the buyer/looker .. I simply call it East Indian Laurel.
To be on the safe side.. I'll amend my previous post and say.. east Indian Laurel , often represented as a rosewood (dalbergia)

It has all the characteristics of rosewoods.

Consider Bolivian rosewood.. not a rosewood.. but most of the characteristics.

In looking at Gibsons fotos and the many images on line of East Indian laurel..
betcha Gibson is using the laurel.

Gibson used Morado (bolivian rosewood) for fingerboards.


Another example is the French and Mahogany.. they solved the problem of "mahogany", the many variants and pseudo mahoganies, by simply calling all of them A C A J O U .

Guarantee you will see this in the future by some enterprising American hustler.

Just as the Spanish and C A V I U N A instead of jacaranda, rio rosewood, Brazilian etc. CAVIUNA... coming to you soon.

I still think the magic Gibson rosewood is likely east indian laurel.. rosewood or not.

[Jim.S]

Could you link me to some of the pics of Gibson guitars in this wood please? The only pics I can find that have "Bhilwarra" in their description are just not good enough to be able to say anything other than it is brown wood (that's the Jumbo pics on the Gibson site).

Jim

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

Could you link me to some of the pics of Gibson guitars in this wood please? The only pics I can find that have "Bhilwarra" in their description are just not good enough to be able to say anything other than it is brown wood (that's the Jumbo pics on the Gibson site).

Jim

http://www.wildwoodguitars.com/produ...oryID=432&n=26

Wildwood Guitars is good about describing individual guitars, and supplies a photo (sometimes video) of each. However, Gibson stains the B/S so dark that it's hard to tell mahogany from rosewood.

[Jim.S]

Much better pics thanks Zmf, looks like Dalbergia. I have worked with some of the Terminalias (pseudo laurel) but never anything that dark, that don't mean jack all though it could be a laurel. Would you have some samples of the leaves, branches, bark and flowers? Maybe you need to phone Gibson and ask what they are up too with that one or be satisfied with forum guesswork from photos.

Jim

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Jim.S

Maybe you need to phone Gibson and ask what they are up too with that one or be satisfied with forum guesswork from photos.

I'll do it. This has got me curious now. I'll call them on Monday & will report back if there's anything to report.


whm