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  #1  
Old 04-27-2010, 07:01 PM
Secutor Secutor is offline
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Default Cats eyed budget archtop?

Hi
I believe this is the place to ask.
Iīm looking to buy my first archtop guitar, and Godins 5īth Avenue Kingpin is my ballpark - budget-wise. I understand it offers decent sound for the money. The thing is that I have never liked the look of those f-sound-holes most jazz guitars have. I do however love the ones with cat-eye sound-holes on guitars like the beautiful Rickenbacker Jazz-bo, or the Gretch G400B.
After searching the internet and especially youtube, it seems to me that the look I want is thin on the ground on my buget. Or is it...?
Sound is of course number one, but I wont be caught dead with those f-holes

Thanks for reading this.

NB: Alternatives are altso welcome.
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2010, 07:38 PM
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Nice! Too bad the JazzBo is discontinued.



I like the Gretsch, too


You may have to get a custom-built guitar to get exactly what you're looking for. My friend Erich Solomon does cool looking soundholes like this. He would probably build you something like that if you ask nice :
http://www.solomonguitars.com/



JR
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2010, 09:27 PM
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Now that Solomon certainly is an interesting looking guitar
With a rather not-so-interesting price tag I might add...

And yeah, why Rickenbacker discontinued the jazz-boo is beyond me.
The Gretch Synchromatic is just too cool...
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2010, 11:00 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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I agree that the Gretsch is a very cool-LOOKING archtop, but unfortunately I've played several examples and never found one that sounded very good. And they ain't cheap - the day after George Michael danced around pretending to play one in his "Faith" video, the price on those guitars skyrocketed, and they've never returned to where their market price realistically reflects their musical utility (which is not all that great, frankly.)

Secutor, the Godin archtops are really the best deal around on archtops these days, in terms of value received for dollars spent. You can probably buy ten Godins for the price of one Gretsch cats' eye Synchromatic, and any one of those ten Godins will probably sound better than the Gretsch.

Ordinarily I'm not much on suggesting irreversible modifications on guitars, but if the visual impact of traditional F holes is just unbearable to you, you might be better off getting the Godin and then converting the soundholes to something close to the cats' eye design than spending a lot of money on a vintage Gretsch that looks better than it sounds.

By the way, J.R, next time you speak to Erich Solomon please tell him Wade Hampton Miller says howdy. I met Erich when he was just starting out building guitars up here in Anchorage. He's a great guy and a fine builder.


Wade Hampton Miller
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
I agree that the Gretsch is a very cool-LOOKING archtop, but unfortunately I've played several examples and never found one that sounded very good. And they ain't cheap - the day after George Michael danced around pretending to play one in his "Faith" video, the price on those guitars skyrocketed, and they've never returned to where their market price realistically reflects their musical utility (which is not all that great, frankly.)

Secutor, the Godin archtops are really the best deal around on archtops these days, in terms of value received for dollars spent. You can probably buy ten Godins for the price of one Gretsch cats' eye Synchromatic, and any one of those ten Godins will probably sound better than the Gretsch.

Ordinarily I'm not much on suggesting irreversible modifications on guitars, but if the visual impact of traditional F holes is just unbearable to you, you might be better off getting the Godin and then converting the soundholes to something close to the cats' eye design than spending a lot of money on a vintage Gretsch that looks better than it sounds.

By the way, J.R, next time you speak to Erich Solomon please tell him Wade Hampton Miller says howdy. I met Erich when he was just starting out building guitars up here in Anchorage. He's a great guy and a fine builder.


Wade Hampton Miller
Thanks man. Itīs strange how vintage and fame (and looks of course), makes an instrument seem so alluring, despite the quality. So it doesnīt sound good..huh.. I thought that if it only had the Gretsch logo on it, somehow the sound was garanted. (dissapointed now...) And yeah, I remember Georgie boy strutting it up with the Syncromatic, but I think my olīcowboy looks way cooler

I can spend hours on end surfing the net just on guitars. Any type, just for fun or for admiring the various styles or sheer beauty. And some Archtops truly look like works of art. I just happen to prefer the old german look. And the fact that theyīre less common appeals to me as well. I guess Godin is quite special for making a budget archtop that sounds good. Here is this bloke on youtube who modified his 5īth Avenue to sound even better.

However Iīm still curious if somebody know something I altso wanna know...

Last edited by Secutor; 04-28-2010 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 02:06 AM
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Try Phillips Guitars



Bong.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:11 PM
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Although it's about ten times your budget this Metropolis by Christophe Grellier is rather nice...



You're right though, there are very few of the mass market manufacturers, even of semi acoustics, producing with modern or alternative shaped sound holes. There are so many possibilities, and it really makes a guitar distinct, but it seems they all go for the same f....hole!

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  #8  
Old 04-29-2010, 04:13 AM
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I played a Dean with a cheap tag. Sound was ok, but it had the "look". I owned a Solomon for a while. I couldn't justify owning it for how well I played. I made enough off it to take the kids to Disney. Plus got a Martin and a Morgan in the deal. I will always miss the playability and tone of the Solomon. Yum
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:44 PM
Secutor Secutor is offline
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WOW Bong!
That Metropolis looks stunning!
Def something I would consider if i was a bankers son. But beeing a blue collar ba***rd -I really need to shop around. Any idea about the sound on those Philip Guitars? They look good.

I couldenīt agree more about the f-holes looking unmodern. Theyīre pretty, like classical instrument are, but a rather tired look on guitars in my opinion. Funny thing though, Martin Gore, of one of the most cutting edge bands in the world; Depeche Mode (Iīm a big fan), has always sworn to Gretsch. He owns several models, but only one with cats eyes (wich Iīve never seen him use).

I tried out the 5īth avenue today, and though I really didnīt know much about what to expect, I found it sounded uncomfortable sharpish, and I couldenīt get any of that smooth jazzy sound, -unplugged or plugged). It had normal metal strings on it, so i guess that has a quite a lot to do with it, but how much difference are we talking..? I aim to use the guitar mostly for strumming as I really canīt do much fingerpicking (yet). I have this idea to plug it into my DAW and use amp and effects software, and get a smooth sounding guitar for various Ŧmellowŧ styles of music.

My current electric guitar sounds harsh with those bloody Humbuckers on it (I really dislike them). And recording my acustic through a mic is not an option for my set-up.

@Wade Hampton: today I checked, and around here you only get three and a half Godin 5īth Avenue for the price of one Gretsch cats' eye Synchromatic... ;-) You used to get around five, but there was an offer on the Gretsch

Last edited by Secutor; 05-04-2010 at 07:27 AM.
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  #10  
Old 05-01-2010, 12:58 PM
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I made enough off it to take the kids to Disney. Plus got a Martin and a Morgan in the deal.
Now thats a helluva guitar! But I suspect you cried inside, while riding the rollocoaster
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  #11  
Old 05-01-2010, 01:15 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secutor View Post
I tried out the 5īth avenue today, and though I really didnīt know much about what to expect, I found it sounded uncomfortable sharpish, and I couldenīt get any of that smooth jazzy sound, -unplugged or plugged). It had normal metal strings on it, so i guess that has a quite a lot to do with it, but how much difference are we talking..? I aim to use the guitar mostly for strumming as I really canīt do much fingerpicking (yet). I have this idea to plug it into my DAW and use amp and effects software, and get a smooth sounding guitar for various Ŧmellowŧ styles of music.
Secutor, you're hardly the first guitarist to fall in love with the overall visual aesthetic of archtops, only to be flabbergasted by the way most of them actually SOUND....in case there's any doubt in your mind, I definitely include myself in this group.

Yes, there are some terrific-sounding archtops out there, but they typically cost megabucks. Every once in a blue moon someone will luck into a great-sounding, musically versatile example of an archtop that they get for very little money, but that's very rare, indeed.

You can get the 5th Avenue and experiment with strings and bridge materials. Jazz guitarists often use flatwound strings, which are way too dark and murky-sounding for my taste, but might give you exactly what you're looking for.

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@Wade Hampton: today I checked, and around here you only get three and a half Godin 5īth Avenue for the price of one Gretsch cats' eye Synchromatic... ;-) You used to get around five, but there was an offer on the Gretsch
Well, save your pennies, then. The Synchromatics must have come down in price some, because the last time I checked their prices were up in the stratosphere.

Probably the smartest thing you can do, if at all possible, is track down and play a Synchromatic for yourself. Again, it might suit you exactly.

However, I do want to mention that my own rather unenthused reaction to the sound of the half dozen or so Gretsch Synchromatics I've played is not at all uncommon. Every time the topic of Synchromatics has come up among the serious guitar enthusiasts and collectors I know, the general reaction has been: "Looks great, sounds like a cigar box."

But, again, you might have just the right touch to make it work for you. I know I don't, but you might.

So good luck in your quest.


Wade Hampton Miller
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  #12  
Old 05-01-2010, 01:36 PM
Secutor Secutor is offline
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A Syncromatic is way out of my price range anyway. But itīs certainly good to know about their sound (in case I strike gold). The Synchromatic was locked inside a glass box in the shop...Sexy, but bad in bed seems to be the bottom line here..hehe..

If not flabbergasted, I was certainly disappointed about the sound. I think I need to try an archtop with those flatwound strings. Warmth is what Iīm after. I just have to try more guitars I guess.

Thanks man. I appreciate you sharing the experience.
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Old 05-01-2010, 02:15 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secutor View Post
A Syncromatic is way out of my price range anyway. But itīs certainly good to know about their sound (in case I strike gold). The Synchromatic was locked inside a glass box in the shop...Sexy, but bad in bed seems to be the bottom line here..hehe..
That's one way to put it, I suppose...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secutor View Post
If not flabbergasted, I was certainly disappointed about the sound. I think I need to try an archtop with those flatwound strings. Warmth is what Iīm after. I just have to try more guitars I guess.
Well, it depends on what your definition of "warmth" as an adjective describing guitar tone happens to be, but "warmth" is certainly not a word that pops into my mind when considering the tone of archtop guitars.
"Direct," "punchy" and "clean" are more likely to be words I would use.

As for gaining "warmth" by using flatwounds, again, that's not the likeliest path you could use to reach that goal, unless you're also using a magnetic pickup on the guitar at the same time and can twiddle the tone controls on the amp.

And, yes, picking up and playing as many guitars as you can lay your hands on is by far and away the best way to gain this sort of knowledge for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Secutor View Post
Thanks man. I appreciate you sharing the experience.
Hey, that's why we're all here. Good luck on your quest.


whm
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  #14  
Old 05-02-2010, 12:31 PM
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Wade: I guess my inquiries in this thread is pretty much a spot on characteristic of me here:

"you're hardly the first guitarist to fall in love with the overall visual aesthetic of archtops only to be flabbergasted by the way most of them actually SOUND....."

I think I need to search this forum on tips of the particular sound Iīm after. I definitely want a Cat eyes archtop, but Iīve realized that itīs not the guitar I need right now.

Funny though, I really thought archtops where the most "suave" sounding electric guitars around, but after listening closely, theyīre really not... Tone turned all the way down, itīs easy to get "fooled". I was anyway.
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Old 05-02-2010, 03:24 PM
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J.R. Rogers J.R. Rogers is offline
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Quote:
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Funny though, I really thought archtops where the most "suave" sounding electric guitars around, but after listening closely, theyīre really not... Tone turned all the way down, itīs easy to get "fooled". I was anyway.
Yes, typical archtops have a round and mid-rangey sound that is good for a particular type of music... But aesthetically, archtops are some of the most lovely guitars... and a real attribute to the art of guitar building.

How about a 'crossover' guitar? Check out the Eastman Del Rey series.


JR
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